Live for the Kill: A Berserker's Handbook

Hitting Hard: We have access to all of the powers of our barbarian brothers as well as a focus on new Martial Powers. While a Barbarian has to learn how to channel their rage, our Fury comes through without any fancy skills or techniques.

Durability: Defender level HP, and some good AC options. 8 Surges is a little low compared to the Fighter and paladin, and not having any significant reason to pump con might make this a little lack luster.

Formation Work: Our brothers and Sisters are concentrated killing machines, but as far as that can get you, even the most brutal assault can be repelled by teamwork. And we have plenty of team work options in the form of Slow and combat advantadge. Always remember, a lone wolf is easy to put down, but a pack is the most dangerous beast in the forest.

This Handbook will use the following system for ratings:

Red: PASS, PASS!
Purple: It can work, but your effort can be better Spent
Black: Solid
Blue: Good, maybe even great.
Sky Blue: Must Have
Gold: The BEST.

This Handbook Covers the Following Sources

AP - Arcane Power
AV - Adventurer's Vault
AV 2 - Adventurer's Vault 2
D XXX - Dragon Magazine, issue XXX
DMA 2009 - Dragon Magazine Annual 2009
DP - Divine Power
DSCS - Dark Sun Campaign Setting
FRPG - Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
HoS - Heroes of Shadow
HotFK - Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms
HotFL - Heroes of the Fallen Lands
HotFW - Heroes of the Fey Wild
MM - Monster Manual
MM 2 - Monster Manual 2
MOTP - Manual of the Planes
MK- Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium
MP - Martial Power
MP 2 - Martial Power 2
PHB - Player's Handbook
PHB 2 - Player's Handbook 2
PHB 3 - Player's Handbook 3
PHH 1 - Player's Handbook Heroes: Series 1
PHH 2 - Player's Handbook Heroes: Series 2
PHR: DB - Player's Handbook Races: Dragonborn
PHR: TF - Player's Handbook Races: Tieflings
PrP - Primal Power
PsP - Psionic Power

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Duality: The Work of a Killer

Being a dual role class makes the berserker hard to quantify and to rate. I am going to evaluate the Martial and Utillity with a DUAL color rating. Since the Primal powers will default at red for their martial effectiveness they are going to be rated solely as Striker powers.

The best way to play a Berserker is as a strike defender. Defending as long as you are getting in spare attacks (or as long as you are stemming the enemy tide) and shifting to Striker when you are ready to mop up or to add some extra punch to party damage.

Power Source and Role: Why we Kill

Unlike our brother's our powers are more then what the spirits give us, we train our bodies for exacting precision. Through discipline, hard work, and determination we reach a level our brothers and sister's can not. The Spirits are always there for us, but they are not the weapon, we are.
Our Role in combat is one of need, sometimes we must maintain our focus and hold our ground against our enemies, at other times we best serve our brothers and sisters by letting loose our fury. Above all else, our purpose is to be the counterweight in any battle.

Battle Field Control: Slow and prone are your 2 big status affects, and they give you Solid control over your opponents. Far from any reasonable "controler", but enough to hold the line.

Burst/NOVA/Spike Damage: We have a long list of excellent powers. We don't have an inherent free attack via feral might, but we can still deal out strong Damage with multi hit powers and heavy weapon damage.

Damage Per Round (DPR): We suffer from some of the same accuracy problems as our fellow Barbarians, but unlike our fellows, we have the power to cripple our enemies, making them easier for us to kill. The Barbarian's Multi-attack powers at paragon and epic are still available to us.

Mobility: We are very mobil, but we will get the best use out of mobillity as a Striker. As a Defender, we will want to plant ourselves on the frontline.

Punishment: We have some of the most damaging punishment in the game, as well as a hefty bonus when we strike. Even in Defender mode, we are all about the damage.

Stickiness: We may not live up as well to this as the Knight, or the Fighter, but we aren't poor at this either. WSG makes us better.

Survivability: Defender Level AC and HP, low on surges for a Defender but still solid. And quite a few uttillities to help keep us running.

The Ancestors:
The berserker very much stands as it's own unique class, but since we share so much in common with our parent class, it can be useful for us to look at their premire guide, written by Lord Duskblade. community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

And thank you to everyone who has commented, will comment, and may comment. I couldn't pull this off without your imput.

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Live for the Kill

#2 Nov 18, 2011 18:38:51

dragvandil13

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Ability Scores: Nature of a Killer
Strength: Our bread and butter stat. You need an 18 or more here post racial.

Constitution: This stat can never hurt, but we do not benefit in any special way from this score. Nothing wrong with a 13 or 14 here, but you are more likely to not prioritize this.

Dexterity: Having lost Barbarian agillity, this stat is even MORE important for our AC. It also gives us good initiative, which can be vital. Where we make our stand is extremely important, and the sooner we posistion, the more control of the battle we have. You want this as high as possible without sacrificing your Str.

Intelligence: For a lot of barb's this is going to be a dump stat, but if you pick an int based race, you can use this inplace of Dexterity. Dex is still nicer, but ya gotta keep your defense up.

Wisdom: Boosts our weakest defense, as well as Perception. *Note, either this or CHA get's the blue. I tend to favor Wis, but Cha is an equal pick.

Charisma: It can work for us, and classes with bonuses here are good picks.

Races: Born Killers

Killers:

Dwarf: Str, Con. Weak Defenses, but the support keeps him an excellent choice due to racial Feats.

Githzeral: Wis, Dex. The only choice here that doesn't bump strength. But the excellent feat and racial support is astounding.

Half Orc: Dex, Str, excellent support for all we like to do, perfect.

Human: Exceling at all they do, spare feat, floating +2, and a great Paragon Path.

Mul: Takes after it's Dwarven lineage. Str/Con

Thri-Keen: Another Dex, Str class

Dragon Born: Ideal for Str, Cha Berserkers. Excellent racial support, and the breath weapon is a great defender power.

Genasi: Str, Int. A unique build, but it covers the bases.

Goliath: Str, Wis and support for most of our favorite things. And the racial power is incredibly useful.

Minotaur: Str, Wis, and they support the class very well. Excellent choice.

Long tooth Shifter: Str, Wis. Fantastic. Like the rest of the Str/wis choices he is well supported and his racial power is extremely useful for us.

Warforged: Con, Str. hello mr. War machine!

Changling: Int/Dex and Cha. Either way you go you have a solid set of defenses, but you'll be spending points to get your str up.

Drow: Neat racial power, another strong defensive class for the berserker. Dex, Wis

Elf: Dex, Wis. Some real potential at level 19.

Reveneant: Dex, Cha

Razorclaw Shifter: Wis, Dex

Wilden: Wis, Dex and very flavorful.

Deva: Wis, Int. (Wis, Cha is strictly inferior) strong defenses, the racial is nice.

Eladrin: Int, Cha, another solid choice.

Gnome: Mr. Personality. Int, Cha

Kalasthar: Cha, Int

Shard Mind: Int, Cha

Tiefling: Cha, Int as well as some unique racial support.

Half-Elf: Con, Wis/Cha. The only race that doesn't benefit at least one of our primaries.

Races of the Fey:

Hamadryad: wis, int, but a good racial, and interesting racial utillity options. Neat.

Pixie: Dex, Cha. And Being Tiny you can get up to some real shenenigans. The Racial utillity powers are excellent.

Satyr: Cha/Dex, a really fun choice, and they give you Bluff. Huzzah!

source:

www.wizards.com/dnd/files/397_Racial_Abi...

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Live for the Kill

#3 Nov 18, 2011 18:39:09

dragvandil13

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Features: Talents for Killing

Heartland: This sets up 3 different sets of bonuses and benefits that will alter your berserker significantly.

Arid Desert berserkers have excellent AC in Cloth Armor, getting a bonus equal to hide and getting shenenigans for cloth armor.... *cough unarmored agillity cough*

Temperate berserkers can deal more damage then normal while weilding a shield and a one handed weapon.

Frozen land berserkers however get access to additional bonuses to fortitude and will.

At higher levels (4) Arid Berserkers get fire resistence, Temperate berserkers get a +1 to charge speed, and Frozen land berserkers get resist cold. The different Resist's scale 5/10/15.

Defender Aura: If your DM has nothing but spite for you, he will make you spend the minor action to activate your Aura. Technically the aura has no expiration except for using a primal power and entering Fury. So unless you are sleeping, there is no reason you cant say "I wake up in the morning and activate my defender Aura as a minor action." And after a short rest, "Now that I am rested, and my Fury abated, I activate my Aura."

Poised Defender: While our aura is active and we are not wearing heavy armor we get a +2 to AC, which more often then not puts us at top tier AC.

Vengeful Guardian: MBA+1/2/3D8. Usable on anyone who violates your aura. This is the source of our defender abillity. It's a shame it doesn't count an an Oppertunity Attack, then it would benefit from some feats, but it still gets your weapon feats, and crit chance.

Berserker Fury: We shed our Defender Aura, Poised Defender, and Vengeful Guardian in order to gain +1/2/3 D8's on our MBA and most of our At-will powers. Any Primal Barbarian Attack power will set it off. In addition the Primal powers tend to be heavier hits.

At-Will Powers: Basic Technique of the Kill
Martial

Run Down: It slows, and combined with World Serpent's Grasp, it is our best defender power. High damage while in Fury, Slow, At-will. For now this is the power that every Berserker should be grabing.

    Jarring Smash: Target grants CA, high damage in fury. This helps our accuracy out, and lets us be a frontline leader (giving all of our allies good reason to hit what we are hitting)

Stalk and Strike: Shift 2, high damage output, and you can use the Old Thunderhooves rage to turn this into 2w+1d8. Excellent.

Aggressive Lunge: The only at-will power that get's D6's instead of D8's. Great for Defending, less so for Striking but still good. Push an enemy, and shift into his spot. Cutting in line is awesome.

Primal

Since 2/3rds of Berserkers would rate the following powers RED, I am going to rate them for Strike Berserkers.

Any Weapon:

Foe to Foe: Just no.... no scale, no special benefit.... just say no!

Howl of Fury: This is really dependent. With a good con mod, this can be a nice minion popper, and if you are taking a martial encounter power then this isnt a bad pick to have as a can opener for your fury. (specially if you are human and get the spare at will. I'd retrain once you have a new primal encounter.)

Pressing Strike: Shift 2, push 1. The push is really nice, but Stalk and Strike is strictly superior. We get the bonus damage more often and it's more versatile for us.


Two Handed Weapons:

Howling Strike: If you HAVE to have a primal at will, this is a nice can opener. If you are going all Striker berserker (for some reason) just   enjoy your encounter powers.

Recuperating Strike: Solid THP gain, but it has the same draw back as Howl of Fury, without a decent Con score this just is not a good power. But it scales fair enough, and when you rage it grants a tasty 5temp HP. Not obsolete, but...... again, their are better options.

Devastating Strike: NEVER EVER EVER take this power. Your MBA does the same damage, and without costing you AC. And your MBA can be used on a charge. it was bad for barbarians, and if their was a rating lower then Red, this would have it.

Savage Reach: Damage wise this is sub par. The slide is nice, but that hardly puts it ahead of Pressing Strike. for Polearm fans, this power is Blue.

Two Weapon powers

Whirling Rend: Berserkers do lack a heartland feature to support this, but it is still a solid power for attacking 2 foes at once. Feat intensive option but 2 weapon Berserkers are going to love this. Hopefully we get some new Heartland options to support 2 weapon berserks, but for now the damage output on this power keeps it a weak option.

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Live for the Kill

#4 Nov 18, 2011 18:39:28

dragvandil13

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Heroic Tier: How to Kill a Man

The primary powers listed are the new options as well as the superior options from previous editions

Level 1, Encounter

Level 1 can be a tough Level. From this point out we are going to be concerned with balancing Martial and primal encounter powers, but until level 3 we only have 1 encounter power... I recommend taking a Primal power here and retraining it at level 3 if you want to have access to Fury on a controallably regular basis. but if you just have to have the level 1 martial (which is a neat power) I'd recomend taking a primal at will as a can opener. (this is easier for Humans.)

Level 1 encounter list

Martial
Batter Down: 2 weapon +prone, even considering the greater list of available powers this is pretty solid. And prone is a great way of keeping an important enemy close. It's equally solid for Striking.

Primal:
Savage Cut: 2w+1d8, great choice for those who are squeamish about Avalanche Strikes debuff.

Level 1 Options

PHB2:
Avalanche Strike: (PHB2) 3W makes this the biggest baddest swing for Barbarians at this level, but it does come with a nasty de-buff. Solid, but I can't say i recomend it.

Blood Letting: Standard Faire, a little extra damage if you have a Con mod.

Great Cleave: A solid power with some spare damage if you're surrounded.

Vault the Fallen: 2 attacks, d6 bonus on each, and you can shift after the first swing. Good stuff.

Shout of Terror: (PrP) MBA+blast 3 slow. A nifty way to check out of your Defender Aura without immediately shifting to Striker. The low damage holds it back for me, but it is still a Solid choice.

PrP:
Desperate Fury: standard 2w damage, with some built in accuracy.

Escalating Violence: On par with Desperate Fury, gives you +2 to hit and to damage on your next attack. Good stuff.

Resurgent Strike: You gain Temp Hp or you end a Daze or Weaking effect. Then you deal 2w damage.

Shout of Terror: Low damage, but its a good way to spread some slow. Being so low on damage this is only situationally solid. If it was martial, this would be well worth it.

Whirling Frenzy: 2w+str, Burst 1 but with a miss condition (1d6) also it requires 2 weapons. It is SOLID for any two weapons Berserkers, but it's a straight out waste of a slot for anyone else.

Others:

Rending Strike: Good potential.

Room for Carnage: Reach only, MBA with some push..

Level 1, Daily

Daily powers SHOULD still have some balance within themseves, but it isn't nearly as important. You can take all Primals to be a better striker, all martials to be a better defender, or a mix to be good at both.

Level 1 Daily powers

Martial

Sweeping Cut: 2w damage and knock prone.... oh and it's burst 1. A very nice Defender Daily power, but the lack of a special benefit means it's best for Defending.

Primal

Life Ending Strike: At 4w damage it is the BIGGEST punch available to us at heroic tier. Usable as a charge is all gravy. This power is all about BIG damage.

[sblock equals Level 1 Options]
PHB2:

Blood Hunt Rage: Solid damage, meager bonuses.

Macetail's Rage: Burst 1, so the damage can be really good or really bad. Temp Hp gain on a hit keying off of your bread and butter stat. Sweet! Hitting against Reflex knocks it into blue.

Rage Drake's Frenzy: Potential accuracy bump, and the free MBA on a kill is perfect for us. *A personal favorite to enhance my striking with more attacks.

Swift Panther Rage: Extra Speed, and you can shift 2 as a move action. If you plan on charge spaming, this is Superior, but for others it's strictly not very special.

PrP
Blood Bear Rage: Sub par damage, and to get the extra damage on other creatures, you have to spend a standard action.

Life Thane Rage: Lower damage, and it's effect depends on you having Cha. The healing is nice, and its what is keeping it above red.

Savage Juggernaut Rage: Conditional Accuracy bump. This might get you a few bumps, but it also makes you want to use it first. Pass

Thunder Hooves Rage: Solid Damage, and you can combine it with Stalk and Strike to really wring some damage out of it.

Tyrant's Rage: Sub par damage but Daze is nice, and being that pushy is pretty amazing.

Other:

Always Falling Rage: Low damage, and it's effect is rather poor. You dont RUN from a fight. You run INTO the fight.

Blood Seeker's Rage: If this power was later on, I would only rate it solid, but its a great way to keep up your defending.

Skull Taker's Rage: Good damage, but I'm not that hard up for accuracy thank you very much.

[/sblock]

Level 2, Utility

We get a fair list of powers here. Thankfully utillity powers do not set off our Fury.

Level 2 Utillity Powers

Nomad's Rush: You move your speed +4 and you ignore difficult terrain. As an encounter move action. So much for the DM using terrain to slow you down.

Ignore Pain: A good way to keep yourself standing once per day.

Utillity Options

Combat Sprint: Strictly inferior to Nomad's Rush.

Primal Vitality: At level this is POOR. There are better ways to spend your utillities. Ignore Pain is going to be more THP, and it's better action economy.

Stonebreaker: This CAN be useful, but it offers very little to us in terms of helping us.... ignore it.

Tiger's Leap: Another power that really doesn't do anything for us...

PrP

Bounding Stride: Nomad's rush is a superior option. The chances og moving +6 instead of +4 keeps it from the trashcan.

Feral Rejuvenation: Self healing once per day, good allocation.

Savage Comeback: Umm. Just not good. Once per day you can damage yourself to suceed a saving throw...

Savage Growl: Extra Damage? Once per encounter. A GREAT way to increase your damage out put. Sadly the target get's it to, but it is still excellent.

Shrug it Off: Reposistioning, and a free saving throw BEFORE it has a chance to bother you. Classic.

Level 3, Encounter

Here we go; now we get to have some balance in our encounter. Here Brutal Slam is a favorite of mine but Implacable Advance is a solid runner up.

Level 3 Encounter

Martial

Implacable Advance: This makes you very sticky to one target. But chances are that its secondary effect will be mostly a deterent. Still solid damage, and you know the old saying "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.".

Primal

Thundering Smash: 2 weapon damage and some minion poppin. Good, not great. In fact chances are that you're getting more damage out of Implacable Advance.

Encounter Options:

PHB2

Blade Sweep: Eh..you MIGHT exceed the average damage here. Not bad coming out of your defender aura though.

Blood Strike: Easily a 3w damage attack... nice.

Daring Charge: Badge of Berserker.. makes this attack completely irrelevent.

Hammer fall: I make no secret that Brutal Slam is KING as this level, this is the old king. Strictly inferior.

Shatterbone Strike: Solid damage, and it gives an AC debuff. Good stuff.

PrP

Brutal Slam: Solid Damage, Push, prone, and you get to add your modifiers again against someone else. AND it hits against a NAT. This is almost GOLD.

Reckless Rampage: To pricey for the benefit, it is a great way to reach a far off target though.

Rippling Blades: Getting to Dip into Leader is nifty, specially if the class making the attack has good MBA's.

Thundering Howl: Low damage on the initial, but the push and pop makes up for it. If you are looking for some AoE, look no further.

Whirling Step: Another 2 weapon attack. Not bad, but even if this is your thing, I recomend Brutal Slam or another power here.

Other:

Roaring Challenge: Eh...we lack the motivation to take this. The big nicety was fishing for rampage with it. There is just so much better here.

Longstrike Charge: Good damage, usable on a charge... But even charge Op guys take Brutal Slam, or Thundering Howl. There are SIX powers at this level that will outshine it every day.

Level 5, Daily

And now our Daily powers have balance. It's a good feeling.

Level 5 Daily powers

Martial

Dangerous Presence: 3w damage is always solid, and enemies in your defender's aura grant combat advantage. Very NICE. A great synergy power, even if you already have a way to grab CA (Unless of course you have pack outcast as a theme)

Primal

Feral Ramage: 3w against 2 targets... and you can shift up to your speed... very nice.

Daily Options:

PHB2

Frost Wolf Rage: Solid punch, typically minimal benefit.

Silver Phoenix Rage: I am a fan of all the Phoenix Rages. Average fire damage, ongoing 5 fire damage, regen 3, and you can spend a surge when you hit 0 hp. It may not add to your damage output, but it'll keep you standing and that will keep you hitting things.

Thunderhawk Rage: Average damage, and Daze but 1 free action prone attack per turn. (Str vs Fort) pretty good stuff.

Vengeful Storm Rage: Pretty much eclipsed by another power. It's not completely obsolete, but the other power is MUCH MIGHTIER.

PrP

Ancient Berserker's Rage: Not to shabby. CA, and a damage bonus. More geared for cha Berserkers though.

Rage of the Crimson Hurricane: Lower punch, BUT its a close burst. When you hit an enemy with a Primal melee power each adjacent enemy takes damage equal to your Str Mod. Effectively adding 4 or 5 damage to your DPR on the target and popping minions or cutting into anyone else giving you grief. It's a beautiful thing.

Razor Wind Rage: We don't have rampage.... simple enough.

Tiger's Claw Rage: Solid, and some spare damage on a miss.

Other:

Ambusher's Rage: Strictly inferior to Swift Panther. Yeah it's a minor action, but you have to end next to a bloody enemy. It's less suck for non charge guys, but it's still a mighty heaping of fail.

Clawfoot Berserker's Rage: The trigger of this effect really holds it back, but it's still not bad.

Earthquake Dragon's Rage: not ally friendly, and this really isn't your thing.

Longstrike Slayer: Strikes me as more for Polearm users. Considering the other powers this is really lackluster.

Level 6, Utility
Run rampant is still the best pick here. But Cull Weakness is fairly nifty. Wilderness Step is... yeah...

Level 6 Utillities

Cull Weakness: Hurray for a stance, these are excelent faire for Defenders and Strikers. Bloodied Enemies grant CA to you and you deal a spare 4 damage to them. If you still dont have a way to get CA, this is a MUCH BETTER pick.

Wilderness Step: This is a poor man's Run Rampant. Being a free action is nice, but typically we don't use a lot of minor actions. Strictly inferior to Run Rampant, and the only reason it's not red is because it's a free action.

Utillity Options

PHB2

Combat Surge: A daily reroll while raging.. it's a'ight. Obviously, you have to have a rage for this.

Indomitable Shift: A daily shift based on your con mod... but that's not what we are here for. 1d10+ 1/each enemy within 2 squares of you.

Instinctive Charge: Once per day you get +5 to initiative, and a +2 to your first attack. Also nice.

Loss of Will: If you have a cha mod, this is a great utillity power. Encounter debuff on an enemy who misses you. Nice way to tempt someone violating your Defender Aura.

PrP

Climber's Claws: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed till the end of your next turn. It's not bad but it's not particularlly useful.. Situational at best earns it a low rank.

Primal Charge: A nice way to gain some extra charge speed. Useful for striking.

Relentless Surge: 5+con mod temp Hp. nice.

Run Rampant: This makes you difficult to contain. your str mod to the saving throw. Huzzah!

Snarling Defiance: Half Damage and you get +2 against the attacker... sweet.

Other

Laugh it Off: An encounter version of Snarling Defiance. Less damage erasure, but it can help you hit an annoying enemy.

Level 7, Encounter
A fairly prolific level. Curtain of Steel is a power most barbarians keep their entire careers. Deny Escape isn't superior, but it's defenitely worth a look. And you Adroit Explorer's may want to take it.

Level 7 encounter powers

Martial

Deny Escape: 2w damage feels a little low for our level, but it immobolizes... Remember, you are taking this for the defender role.

Primal

Shattering Strike: 3w and it ignores insubstantial. Eh.... the damage is nice, and if you have to deal with a lot of insubstantial enemies it's a good thing. Black if that is the case, but strictly a poor choice otherwise.

Encounter Options

PHB2

Curtain of Steel: 3w damage, off turn, pay back. Since it no longer has hopes of triggering our Feral Might it does loose a little something, but it makes up for it because we can now trigger our fury off turn.

Great Shout: Nice Debuff, and good damage.

Feast of Violence: With our higher AC we can make good use of this. +1 to hit and +1W for every OA we allow to be made against us when we use it.

Tide of Blood: Standard attack, but a few spare points of damage.

PrP

Blood Sacrifice: Vs Fort is always nice, and some spare damage.. if you happen to be able to resist that damage, then it shimmys up to being a good power.

Fearsome Smash: This is a pretty nifty power, and it can trigger either as a standard action or as a reaction to being hit. average damage, and a debuff.

Harbringer of Doom: Low damage blast attack again. This time they all get vuln 5 to all damage. If you have a nice blaster this has some real synergy, but otherwise it's not impressive.

Looming Threat: A nice way to get some marking in while you are a striker.

Slash and Slash Again: Good for 2 weapon users, the rest of us can't take it.

Other

Wheat before the Scythe: Low damage close burst. It is nice that it's an encounter power and so is the knock prone.

Level 9, Daily

This is an important level for us, and we have lots of good choices.

Level 9 Daily Powers

Martial

Eye of the Maelstrom: This is my favorite Defender power in the book, your Aura expands and you can shift before your vengeful guardian attack. Damage is a little low, but 3w Martial is nothing to be upset about. If your not defending, or your Dm has found a way around your abillity to defend, this power is situationally less useful.

Primal

Wrath of the Storm: It's a Brutal Slam on steroids, but it doesnt damage another enemy... 4w and push 4 isn't the worst way to spend a daily power, but it's not particularlly good. Almost Purple, saved by its 4w damage

Daily Options

PHB2

Black Dragon Rage: 2w and ongoing 5 acid. Oh and every enemy that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn is blinded. Self Defense option... kina poor.

Oak Hammer Rage: 3W Damage and Prone. And now all of your attacks include prone. Yes please. =D

Stone bear Rage: High Damage, but chances are that your Con is going to be to low to make this worthwhile.

White Tiger Rage: A nice defender rage. 2w+immobolize and every enemy next to you at the start of your turn is slowed... you just got sticky if you have WSG and Run Down.

PrP
Flying Serpent Rage: Hey, a rip off of swift Panther... and it triggers off of a random effect...If you have a lot of charging in your encounters it is great.

Rage of the Battle Tyrant: Average Damage, as well as some leadery stuff. Not bad, but plain.

Rage of the Death Spirit: Possibly the best way to stay a defender. free marking, and accuracy for you.

Rage of the Primal Banshee: Charge denial... really. If you find your DM LOVES throwing chargers at you, then this is a solid pick.

Serpent Fang Rage: It's nice unless you have jarring Strike.

Other

Carver's Raging Glory: 5 spare damage after a kill... S'okay

Frenzied Beast Rage: We dont have a lot of minor actions, but this isn't a good way to spend that action.

Stoneroot Rage: Resist 5 to all damage and a Hefty punch. Me like.

Level 10, Utility
Circle of battle is clearly the star here, but thats not to say it's always the best. Also if you happen to have a Cha mod, look at Heart Strike (daily stance, your at will get a damage bonus equal to your cha)

Utillity Powers

Circle of battle: This is thematically blinding. Just based on the concept I want to give it gold. Encounter Minor, against one enemy of your choice. Everyone adjacent may shift 2 squares so long as they are no longer adjacent to the target when they finish. And if the target provokes either Vengeful guardian or an OA your attack immobolizes it until the end of it's next turn. If they move, you stop them, if they don't then you got you're way anyways.

Surge of Fury: Once perday you END a Dominating or Dazing effect. Solid especially if you can't bring your Will to par.

Utillity Options

PHB2

Deny Death: Stay up for another turn even though you are at 0. A standard action for Second wind can be nice.

Heart Strike: A good reason to be a Cha Berserker. spare damage equal to your cha mod.

Mountain Roots: Triggers on being moved, and till the end of the encounter you resist all forced movement.

Wellspring of Renewal: End being marked, gain temp hp equal to 1/2 your level +con mod. Not to shabby.

PrP

Barbaric Instinct: Daily resistence to being daxed or stunned... it just feels weak for a daily utillity.

Barbaric offering: A free saving throw when you bloody or kill something once per encounter... nice.

Enraged Surge: +2 to hit when you miss while raging. If you use a lot of rages, this is solid.

Howl of the Alpha Wolf: Excellent reposistioning on a kill, very useful in terms of tactics.

Totemic Sacrification: -2 to all your defenses, but a +1 to hit. Not bad while you are in Defender mode.

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#5 Nov 18, 2011 18:39:51

dragvandil13

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Paragon Tier: Killing Many Men
Begining at paragon, we start having to trade out powers to gain new ones in the Daily and Encounter territory. Since what you want out of your berserker could be many things I will not be recomending powers for the chopping Block. However, since the niche for 2 weapon Berserkers isn't particularlly supported, powers at this level with that requirement are going to be left out.

Level 13, Encounter

This is another prolific level for us, here there is only ONE King. Even if you are going nearly all defender, you WANT this power.

Level 13 Encounter powers

Martial
Drive to the Ground: Another pretender to Brutal Slam's throne. Not bad for the level.

Primal

Blood for Strength: 3w+2d8+etc. Not a terrible power in fact its Damage output is fairly high..but...

Encounter options

PHB2

Blade Whirlwind: Burst 1, 2w+str... this would have made a perfect defender power, shame it's primal.

Crack the Skull: 3w+str, and Daze..same issue as Blade Whirlwind.

Storm of Blades: You attack 3 times. meaning you apply all your modifiers 3 times, all your frost cheese and all of everything. This is going to be your new best friend for a long time. Not to mention you have a chance to crit. The only thing we are missing will be our Fury Dice....

Terror's Cry: Could be a way to keep some defender going after you enter fury... but only the Cha Zerks are going to have the cha to make it a useful.

Thunderfall: A decent replacement for Brutal slam... NAH, just kidding.

Prp

Ancient Clan Strike: Average 10.5 damage to yourself for a +1 and you maintain on a miss... 4w keeps this one Black because you can ignore the trade.

Blood Frenzy: 3w+str and they gain Vul 5 to all damage.. great synergy if you have a Striker heavy Party.

Fortune's Favor: We typically keep a solid to hit, so 5w damage... if you have Heroic effort or another option.....

Iron breaker's Shout: Since con is typically low for us, this power is typically a waste for us.

Level 15, Daily

Some good options here, including some rages we do better with.

Level 15 Daily powers

Martial

Slash at the Knees: A solid Defender power. 3w damage, burst 1 immobilize. A "save ends" would have been nice, but it's still good.

Primal

Bloodletting Assualt: 6w Damage, usable on a charge. Not bad.

Daily Options

Flameheart Rage: 2W+str fire.... pretttty nice. Effect aint bad, min 5 fire damage to whoever hits you

Hunting Lion Rage: Really Nice for folks with combat advantage builds. (Like Frost cheese)

Iron Hammer Rage:

Thunderfury Rage: 3w entry damage, and whenever someone swings at you, you can swing back. And we include our fury dice in that swing. This is a power worth holding on to.

Prp
Ancestral Warband: Ca and a weird Brutal property...

Frost Hide Rage: Con dependent, simply not good for us.

Rage of the War bringer: Cha Dependent and leader-y. We are already 2 roles, we really dont need to splash a 3rd.

Scytheclaw Rage: Pushy, i like it.

Tidal Rage: Very Pushy. A FANTASTIC way to go Striker. The effect is a little lacking, but it's plenty of push.

Level 16, Utility

The only utillity we choose at paragon. The options are rather lackluster.

Level 16 Utillity powers

Distracting Advance: More shift then circle of battle, but not the same effect.... which personally is the majority of the point. Even though it gives more shift this is delving to far into leader territory, and doesn't help you much. Copying Circle of Battle would be a better power.

Path of the Predator: You shift 2x your speed.. Really nomad's rush gives us a similar distance per encounter. It's a shift, but I expect more out of a level 16 daily even if it is a utillity.

Utillity Options

PHB2

Fuel the Fire: To much cost for not enough benefit. Pass

Great Stomp: As a Defender this isn't a bad option. It is counter intuitive to your punishment, but it stops them from moving away from you. being a 2 round daily brings it down. The Striker value is particularlly less. We have easier ways of keeping our target close and they are atwill.

Primal Resistence: A great way to protect yourself from all sorts of annoying damage types. Keeps you up, you choose what you resist, solid for both functions.

Spur the Cycle: You get a spare action on a kill. And who says barbarians are the only folks who enjoy this? Wish it was more then 1 per day, but beggers can't be choosers, and this is exactly what we have been lacking.

Prp

Battle Lust: Triggers on the best way to trigger (Start of your turn dying) no action. You stand for free, spend a healing surge, and you get +2 to hit and +4 damage until the end of your next turn. THAT is a level 16 daily.

Bounding Advance: 5 square shift, once per encoutner, move action.... great way to keep where you need to be as a defender or as a striker.

Rampant Malice: Eh... there are easier ways to get CA.

Scent of Blood: Con reliance makes this pretty fail for us.

Strength of Enduring Pain: Also a so-so utillity power.
[/sblock[

Level 17, Encounter

So 16 was a little dissapointing. Thankfully level 17 is better, and we have a lot of good options.

Level 17 Encounter powers

Martial

Unvoidable Stalker: 3w+str Mod, and at the end of the targets next turn you can shift your speed+2 to be adjacent to it. Solid stickiness.

Primal

Forceful spirits: 4w damage, sweet. Minion pop in the form of 5 force damage as well as push 2 away from the target. Nice way to single out.

Encounter Options:

Devastating Blow: 4w AND the target takes -2 AC till the end of your next turn.

Mountain Grasp: Pretty weak for the level.

Shoulder Slam: Now this is a real contendet against Brutal Slam basically a multi:attacker and it's against Fort. Sweet.

Threatening Fury: Free OA against an enemy when they swing at you, for the Heavy Blade users in the audience this is spicey because they can use an at-will.

Vigorous Strike: Solid damage, and Temp HP equal to one half of your level. Good stuff.

PrP

Frightening Strike: Nice way to keep your defending up in Striker for a turn.

Lines of Rage: 4w is solid, not sure about the effect, but by now we have the HP to make this less of an issue.

Stone Splitting Roar: Nice, not great. There are much better classes for Blasting.

Level 19, Daily

Another daily power, don't worry level 20 is when your paragon coughs it's power up. And this level is FULL of great powers.

[sblock=Level 19 Daily powers]

Martial

Terrifying Presence: Not a bad way to enhance your defenders aura, and if you decided against seeking CA it is a Good Power

Primal

Torrent of Destruction: Amazing, and if you enhance your shifting abillity (not a bad idea if you have stalk and strike, and/or a focus on shifting) it's GOLD.

[sblock=Daily Options]

PHB2

Ghost Viper Rage: Low entry damage, decent effect and the ongoing poison... SCRAPES by.

Hydra Rage: Not a bad way to shore up your accuracy, but of all the rages that grant you MBA's it is the least.

Storm Drake Rage: Standard faire, decent reaction to someone hitting you.

Winter Phoenix Rage: For most of us this is regen 5 or 6, and we can resist death. Nice.

PrP

Desert Wind Rage: Umm.... time to lay on the HURT. Enemies are NOT going to want to be near you in this rage.... not at all. Torrent of Destruction is mt prefered choice at this level, but this is not far behind, and you may consider picking it up later.

Elder Tuskboar Rage: Charge friendly. 5w, Con reliant. Despite its chargabillity and heavy damage dice, it's just not a good pick.

Primal Warband: 5w damage, but being an aura 5 of "SCREW your defenses!!!!!" is enough to pass.

Rock Tree Rage: This is just plain fun. Activates on a shift, a teleport, a noseflick, whatever. They are in your space, they get to deal with your blade. And if they want to posistion in your space, you still get to slap at them. Reduction of forced movement is always nice for us.

Voracious predator Rage: its a good option, even though we have 3 eclipsing options already.

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#6 Nov 18, 2011 18:40:20

dragvandil13

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Epic Tier: How to Kill them ALL

Level 22 Utility:

We get some NIFTY options here

Power

Limitless Advance: At will move action. you reduce fall damage, you can jump UP TO YOUR SPEED, and climb/swim up to your speed. This is going to BE your move action

Utillity Options

PHB2

Last Stand: You should fall down, but you dont. Situationally good, but it could also KILL your character.

Primal instinct: Blindsight 10... eh, much more available here, and only a situational.

Primal Vigor: Just 2 rounds for a daily power... not even that good.

Prp

Blood Seeker's Pursuit: Could be a nice way to gain temp HP. Since it's better late battle its better for the striker side.

Brutal Payback: Not a bad way to make the Dm NOT want to crit you.

Emboldening Courage: A nice way to help focus fire.

Raging Resurgence: A free surge once per day... nice.

Unexpected Clarity: We don't HAVE Rampage, so this is obsolete for us.

Level 23 Encounter:

Powers

Martial

Wracking Wound: Low damage for the level, and only works on voluntary movement.... just not very good..

Primal

Driving Smash: 4w+str and you ignore insubstantial and resistence. Nice for Striking.

Encounter Options

Arcing Throw: 5w damage.... ranged. And if you re using a magic weapon (If you're not BY THE GODS why aren't you? 0_0)

Berserker's Shout: Good damage, and you debuff them from hitting you... nice.

Crater Fall: Situational, but when you use it you get a NAR NAR push. Weak Damage, but the push and chargabillity give it a pass.

Fatal Strike: Good damage, and you stop them from healing.

Feral Scythe: A hefty Burst.

Staggering Strike: ok you shouldn't have picked a primal encounter with this weak damage since heroic. the stun is the ONLY thing keeping this from the trash bin.

Primal

Cutting the path: Pushy, and good damage. Shame you can't target the guys you pushed prone.

Leaves Before the Wind: Very controler-y but in a very good way.

Rabid beast: What holds this back is how you grab 6w out of it. Offering the enemy a slap is NOT worth 1w damage.

This one is Mine: Solid damage, and some marking.

Level 25 Daily:

Here we get access to one of the BEST Berserker powers in the game

Powers

Unmatched Precision: The heftiest swing in your Arseanal while in your fury (8w) can be used in defender (6w), and gives you crit fishing when your encounter powers are expended. It also stacks with your rages.

Daily Options

Ash hammer Rage: 7w, and you gain temp hp everytime you hit. The con mod here keeps it cool, but it's still nothing to shake a stick at.

Blood Hunger Rage: 7w damage, daze is nice, the effect isn't the worst but is is situational.

Blue Dragon Rage: Lower weapon damage, but it spreads the death around

Stone Tempest Rage: enhanced critical, good damage.

PrP

Circle of Blood Rage: High Damage burst, and it gives you a bonus to hit with you at wills.

Clawed Ancestor Rage: Good 1 on 1, but thats about it.

Rage of the Unbridled beast: An attempt at an upgraded, Rock tree, but it's typically worse unless you have the con to make the AC penalty high.

Raptor's Eye Rage: Some brutal. Nice.

Level 27 Encounter:

Another level 13. If you only have one striker power.... this is where you should be grabbing it from.

Powers

Martial

Keep it Down: Knock em down, and keep em down.

Primal

Forceful Evisceration: Eh... situational.

Encounter Options

Blood Wrath: Extra accuracy against who you'd want to take down.

Bonebreaker: A nice way to encourage your enemy to keep close to you. Along the same lines as Curtain of Steel.

Butcher's Feast: Being as we deal an extra 3d8 now, this is a nice power if you are getting wailed on.

Hurricane of blades: The big Kahuna. This is the upgrade for Storm of Blades. Both are good, but this attack uses 2w instead of one. TAKE IT.

Rampaging Dragon: A good multi hitter, but Hurricane of blades is strictly superior. For example I can hit 3 folks with Hurricane of blades, or just one. This requires 2 enemies, and no third swing.

PrP
Crippling Assualt: nothing we havnt seen before, and not a big improvement. 4w, chargeable, gives them vulnerabillity+5 to all damage.

Menacing Blow: Solid damage, and some serious debuffing.

Savage Ancestors Strike: eh.... I'm a MUCH bigger fan of menacing blow. The extra accuracy is nice, but the cost (5d6) is a little much.

Terrifying Howl: If you have been going for blasting (then you should have been a Thunderborn barb. =P) this is a nice pwer. Blast of Immobolize.

Level 29 Daily:

*coming soon*

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#7 Nov 18, 2011 18:40:51

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Destiny of a Killer: Paragons and Epics

Native Path

Deadly Berserker

Well stocked with goodies and treats for the hardworking Berserker. The attack power's aren't that flashy, but remember they are guranteed to hit (because they trigger on a hit for an MBA or an At-will) that and some fun temp HP shenenigans, and some extra damage on an action point... (letting you Nova better) makes it a favorite for me. Racials tend to be better, but there is a lot to like here.

You might be asking why this got the rating it did, afterall at epic and Paragon MBA's and At-wills should be getting less play time. Dont forget that your vengeful guardian power is a Berserker at will. A 1/enc free prone, and a 1/day free ongoing damage to your punishment, and extra damage to boot from both.... good stuff. (At epic that is 2w+3D8+1W+status shenenigans. Pretty beefy.)

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#8 Nov 18, 2011 18:41:22

dragvandil13

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Tools of the Trade:

Weapons, Armor, and Gear

Berserker's favor Accuracy, which means heavy blades and light blades. We dont get an inborn buff to Vengeful guardian's accuracy, and if we dont hit reliablly, our punishment isn't going to mean much. Our Feat Selection should reflect this need as well.

Basic Weapons

Having Access to Military and Simple Melee weapons gives a lot of unique options, but some stand out above the rest.

Two Handed Weapons

GreatSword: Our Defender mechanic depends on hitting, Greatswords are the biggest and most accurate weapons available, and our skill focus makes grabbing the Epic Heavy Blade feat an easy pick up. What is better then hitting more often? Critting more often.

GreatAxe: Bigger damage dice and high crit makes this nifty. Harder to grab the extra crit at epic, and less accuracy means less hitting.

Maul*: Even bigger damage dice, but no high crit. And since you should be proning one enemy/round on their turn.... this means you dont get headsmans chop. (So no bonus damage shenenigans from that.)

One Handed Weapons

For those running Temperate Land, a shield is a must. For those running the Frozen land, it's recomended but not neccesary.

Long Sword: best damage/accuracy

BattleAxe: Bigger damage die, smaller accuracy

Warhammer*: Same as the battle Axe, but a hammer, so you cant add high crit and you dont get Headsmans chop.

Rapier: Not what you'd think with a Berserker, but it will let you get into light blades with a reasonable weapon die, and Light blades have a lot of good feats. Also picking up a Rogue MC isn't a bad idea if you take this weapon considering you can force CA every turn, so getting your sneak attack/encounter should be really easy.

Exotic Weapons

Exotic/Superior weapons provide a lot of bonuses, properties and other shenenigans. here are some of the premiere exotic weapons.

Fullblade: Wish your big sword was more like a great axe? D12 and high crit for you. I recomend this weapon highly by mid heroic.

Executioner's Axe: Adds Brutal 2 as an upgrade. If you aren't familiar, Brutal 2 lets you reroll any weapon attack dice with a value of 2 or less.

Mordenkrad*: Adds Brutal 1 to the Maul.

Gouge: This is the munchkin sized weapon of choice, its the same stats as the Mordenkrad but quallifies for axe and spear feats. It's the most powerful weapon available, but it doesnt do anything to add accuracy. Still hafted Defense is a sweet feat if you need to boost your defense.

Spiked Chain: Low Accuracy and Low damage, but a lot of excellent feat tricks. (underconstruction, so dont freak out if I got something on this weapon wrong.) Also, Light Blade Support.

Exotic One handed

Bastard Sword: Use a Greatsword in one hand.... need i say more?

Waraxe: You dont get the high crit, but you do get the bigger damage die.

Craghammer*: Brutal 2 on a D10. Nice.

*Hammer Rhythmn is an ok feat, but considering it keys off an abillity you shouldn't be boosting routinely, it'll quickly fall behind. If you are planning on being really pushy, the Hammer Expertise Essentials feat does boost this weapon group to comparable with Axes, and in the case of the Mordenkard, makes it a better choice.

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#9 Nov 18, 2011 18:41:56

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Master Killers

Themes, Builds, and Heartlands

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#10 Nov 18, 2011 18:42:53

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Feats:

How we support our character is the most essential part of any Build. Our need for accuracy, and other feats make us far from an exception. I'll break this down into Weapon Feats, Class Feats (which will include an extra few feats that I think are essential) General Feats, and Racial Feats (with the Epic and Paragon mixed in. Hopefully this will help you navigate through these varried choices quickly and easily. And due to volume I'll only be talking about feats that are Black or better, with the exception of the weapon feats.

Under construction

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#11 Nov 18, 2011 21:19:47

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Good luck with the guide. Looking forward to being able to contribute once I get my copy of the book.

#12 Nov 18, 2011 22:39:05

WEContact

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Are you worried that your admittedly light-op style of play and character-building will make you a poorer judge of the Berserker's various options and of the class as a whole in the context of CharOp?

To Strive, to Seek, to Find, and Not to Yield: The Seeker's Handbook

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#13 Nov 18, 2011 22:43:12

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I think this is the case of a premature handbook extrapolation....
*snicker*

#14 Nov 18, 2011 22:49:23

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Joking aside, three things will need to be present at least.

A focus on each of the three environments, and then rating the feats according to how they mesh with that environment feature.

Then a rating on feats for the offensive side and defensive side.

That said, for defenses it's hard not to look at Arid with the unarmoured agility options for defenses. And as others have said the TWD with the rhythm dagger.

#15 Nov 18, 2011 23:09:12

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@ Wecontact:

Not particularlly. The berserker doesnt strike me as having a lot of Hard Op to be done to it, after all Optimization is all about making it the BEST it can be, and the berserker is markedly worse in each of it's individual roles then other roles. For example, why bother optimizing a Berserker to defend when you can use a fighter or paladin and be MUCH better. And on the Striker side of things Ranger is by far the King of Striking.

I still plan on presenting the Optimization options as they are presented to me, also I am using LDB's guide as my template and guide to making this, and my aim isn't to make a HARD CORE optimization guide full of nothing but gold and red but an overview of things.

@lantzkev

I am thinking about dedicating a full post to the three heartlands near the end. And yeah it is premature, but it's a good place to consolidate questions and discussions on the Berserker so that we have a solid knowledge and discussion base. I imagine i am going to be so sick of the edit function in the next few months. @_@

I took it on because I have plenty of free time, and I really like the Berserker.

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#16 Nov 18, 2011 23:12:59

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I took it on because I have plenty of free time, and I really like the Berserker.

There are no better credentials.

To Strive, to Seek, to Find, and Not to Yield: The Seeker's Handbook

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#17 Nov 18, 2011 23:23:14

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Indeed.

#18 Nov 19, 2011 1:26:34

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Is it just me or is my Heroic tier power list messed up.

I have gone over and over the imput and it SHOULD be correct.... O_O

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#19 Nov 19, 2011 1:51:07

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Ok. Heroic tier Powers is finished. i dont know what was messing it up, but I erased ALL of level 1 daily and level 2 utillity and retyped it.

I lost about 30-40 minutes fixing that... I'm gonna take a break. =D

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#20 Nov 19, 2011 2:38:44

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AT-will is missing complete run down of the abilities.

Savage Reach is pretty cool, no feats required you slide the target.

Howling strike has more then just a striker potential. It becomes good way to get you into the thick of things quick. +2 speed? if you're a orc, you now have a charge of 10 at lvl1.... that's just amazing for getting you to the guy quickly you want to get to. and you do more damage ontop of it? yes please.

Also Jarring smash is important in that the target grants CA... not you get CA. your party now gets advantage against it. which is AMAZING

Foe to foe should be mentioned at black, it's added damage if you want to use berserker mainly for striking. that's free d8 damage tacked on if a minion has been downed.

Encounters lvl 1, Shout of Terror, seriously, if you want to be a defender, this is amazing. If you hit, everything in blast 3 is slowed.
Avalanche strike, 3[w], it's nice!

With Daily you get a bit wonky, you seem to value defense more for everything up until this point, but then you place dark blue on the pure offense abilities of rage...

Also consider if you took the howling strike, as a half orc, and took the panther... charge 12... That is charging something fierce... Everywhere.

#21 Nov 19, 2011 3:00:45

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Note that as an at-will aura, you really don't need to spend actions in combat to have your Defender aura up. It lasts indefinitely, and unless you've been woken up from the middle of your sleep, you can basically be assumed ot have it up if you're awake. If your DM rules otherwise, fine, but I've not yet come across a single DM who would.

Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

#22 Nov 19, 2011 3:30:57

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@Lantzkev

I'm running on empty, where is Foe to Foe? It must be in another source then what I have physically at hand, so can you type it up for me?

I will note the potential for Howling strike (With some disclaimers, there is a reason I rated it poorly for berserkers) and go into further detail on the atwills.

I dont like Shout of Terror, because it ends your Defender Aura. I will mention it (because I have been favoring the Defender based powers a bit at encounter. But I'd like to point out that I also tongue polished Brutal Slam and Curtain of Steel. And it does deserve a mention.)

I do prefer the rages overall, they give a much greater benefit typically (Eye of the maelstorm is an AMAZING power.) There are some other powers at Paragon and Epic that I cant help but drool all over that aren't rages though.

@thespaceinvader. I'll defenitely note that.

in other news I got Paragon tier up. I DO want to go back and add in more options for the heroic tier. But for now i am just going to do what I have said I will.

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#23 Nov 19, 2011 3:37:04

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just hop on the character builer and look at the powers that are available...

#24 Nov 19, 2011 3:48:47

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good point.

Foe to Foe I actually would give a rather poor rating. at Heroic it's ok, but it's completely obsolete at paragon. And at Epic it's a joke. I dont want to bash it, but I would never consider taking it. If it scaled it'd be a solid competitor here, (and to be fair I only have the old builder. (there is a reason I have so much freetime) So it may be that they have fixed it.)

*goes looking for such an errata.*

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#25 Nov 19, 2011 3:50:56

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Google failed me if such an errata exists.

I am going to put in 10 minutes to put in some more Encounter powers so i can support the More Striker oriented Berserkers.

And then I sleeeeeeep.

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#26 Nov 19, 2011 4:08:51

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I added in some more encounter powers (specially at level 1) We now have a LARGE number of Level one powers, the big 2 level 3 powers, and some alternatives to Curtain of Steel.

I'd love to finish Epic tier and Paragon paths. But Not for tonight.

While I am asleep i pose a question. How are you guys liking the thematics and theme titles? (Ex: "Paragon Tier: Killing Many Men")

Edit: I looked through Paragon again. For now I am happy with what i have listed, as time goes on i will add some more of course so we have a full list here.

If there is a power you want to see up, just say so. I dont want to put anything up that I'd rate red or purple but I'm willing to listen to arguments for a higher rating.

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#27 Nov 19, 2011 4:40:53

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well kind of the whole point to guides is that all the options are listed.

I personally would suggest going with some sort of marker or dual color system. like first half of a name is the rating for it as a defender and last half as a striker.

So Oblong dong of righteousness ends up indicating the rating for either role.

Also foe to foe goes up to 2[w] at 21... are you using the character builder that's available through DDI? if you're not, you're kind of limiting yourself to make a incomplete handbook...

#28 Nov 19, 2011 5:29:39

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Foe to foe should be mentioned at black, it's added damage if you want to use berserker mainly for striking. that's free d8 damage tacked on if a minion has been downed.

Foe to Foe only works if you drop a non minion so this power is barely even worth mentioning, to quote the Master of Fury himself:

Foe to Foe (PHH 1) - This At-Will is a plain old MBA unless you have dropped a non-minion enemy this encounter, at which point it becomes marginally more damaging than a non-charging Howling Strike at Heroic Tier, and strictly inferior thereafter. Painfully bad.

As an aside, does any one know if the Barbarian feat Deadly Rage is compatible with the Beserker's Fury or is it just solely for use with Rage powers? I'm kind of thinking not, but my rules-fu is pretty weak!

#29 Nov 19, 2011 5:46:01

lantzkev

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I won't disagree with that assesment of foe to foe, that's why I originally had it at black, but I hadn't considered how it ranks later.

as to compatible, you can't multiclass into a class you are...

#30 Nov 19, 2011 5:52:24

lantzkev

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as another note that makes it slightly different for this version of barbarian is that as a defender, giving them a +2 to hit you with howling strike isn't as cool since you might not be raging as much. I still think it's not bad for a at-will, but that several are better choices, but not absolute pick overs that.

#31 Nov 19, 2011 5:59:55

thespaceinvader

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Foe to foe should be mentioned at black, it's added damage if you want to use berserker mainly for striking. that's free d8 damage tacked on if a minion has been downed.

Foe to Foe only works if you drop a non minion so this power is barely even worth mentioning, to quote the Master of Fury himself:

Foe to Foe (PHH 1) - This At-Will is a plain old MBA unless you have dropped a non-minion enemy this encounter, at which point it becomes marginally more damaging than a non-charging Howling Strike at Heroic Tier, and strictly inferior thereafter. Painfully bad.

As an aside, does any one know if the Barbarian feat Deadly Rage is compatible with the Beserker's Fury or is it just solely for use with Rage powers? I'm kind of thinking not, but my rules-fu is pretty weak!

No, fury is not rage, and rage is not fury.

#32 Nov 19, 2011 6:00:28

themadronin

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as to compatible, you can't multiclass into a class you are...

Ok, you kind of lost me there as I never actually mentioned multiclassing...

No, fury is not rage, and rage is not fury.

That's kind of what I thought... ahh well!

Edit: Editted to reflect that my intial question was answered during previous long winded postage!

#33 Nov 19, 2011 7:43:00

alphaant

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Hi, I have some comments on formatting and rating. Hope they help!

Damage

I would recommend using a slightly different color blue for this. I literally cannot see the text without highlighting it.

Intelligence: This is our dump stat, none of our skills or powers benefit from this.

I strongly disagree with this. There's no reason a Str/Int race couldn't boost those instead of Str/Dex. After all, there aren't many powers (none in Feywild that I can find) that have Dex riders either.

*Anything I'd put here would just be a rip off of Lord Dusk Blade. See "The Ancestors" for the link to his guide.*

LDB's guide has a stronger emphasis on Str/Con than a berserker needs, so races like Goliaths will get rated higher there than here. I would recommend still making a separate list here. He also won't be adding any new races from Feywild and beyond, so it's best to not rely on his guide too much.

Jarring Smash: When you enter Fury, this should be your bread and butter until you find another way to get Combat Advantage. This power makes up for our traditionally sub-par accuracy. If Frost Cheese wasn't so common for Barbarians I'd rate this higher. Until you can get CA another way, this is GOLD. And it's still especially useful because the enemy grants CA to EVERYONE who is hitting against it, not just you. Same damage as Run Down

Even at low levels, I don't see CA being difficult enough to get to warrant this being Blue, let alone Gold. Unless you're the only melee character in the party, this would never go higher than Black in my eyes.

Yes, I am a defender apologist. A Rock and a Hard Place: A Warden Handbook

#34 Nov 19, 2011 8:48:30

ppaladin123

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The first post needs to discuss the dual role of the berserker. You want ratings as a defender and as a striker, not just a discussion of DPR and Nova potential. Look at Litigation's Paladin guide for factors that we consider when making a defender (stickiness, mark punishment, mobility, etc.). You probably also want a discussion of the consequences of building a berserker focused on one or the other role.

#35 Nov 19, 2011 8:50:28

WEContact

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as another note that makes it slightly different for this version of barbarian is that as a defender, giving them a +2 to hit you with howling strike isn't as cool since you might not be raging as much. I still think it's not bad for a at-will, but that several are better choices, but not absolute pick overs that.

Howling Strike doesn't give enemies a +2 to hit you. You're thinking of Devastating Strike, that powe that no one ever talks about cause it's terrible.

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#36 Nov 19, 2011 10:15:49

DuelistDelSol

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AT-will is missing complete run down of the abilities.

Savage Reach is pretty cool, no feats required you slide the target.

It's kind of an odd power, since it's just basically "Oh, I slide the target... AND NOW I'M MAD WARARHGARHGAH (Primal Fury)"

Howling strike has more then just a striker potential. It becomes good way to get you into the thick of things quick. +2 speed? if you're a orc, you now have a charge of 10 at lvl1.... that's just amazing for getting you to the guy quickly you want to get to. and you do more damage ontop of it? yes please.

Unfortunately that's incorrect. Berserkers do not get the Rage property on any of their own Dailies (which is where the +2 speed comes from) - and I believe they cannot enter Rages in the first place. I'm probably wrong in that regard, though.

Encounters lvl 1, Shout of Terror, seriously, if you want to be a defender, this is amazing. If you hit, everything in blast 3 is slowed.

You won't be much of a Defender for long if you use that power, since it's a Primal power and will thus trigger your Fury.

Avalanche strike, 3[w], it's nice!

Oh yea, it's great, especially when you whiff and both lose your Defender's aura and drop your defenses by 4. :p

Also consider if you took the howling strike, as a half orc, and took the panther... charge 12... That is charging something fierce... Everywhere.

It's definitely nice, but Berserkers have to be careful on consolidating their Primal power usage if they're the main Defender of the party. Once you trip that wire, it ain't fixin' itself 'til everything's dead.

#37 Nov 19, 2011 10:20:06

Mand12

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Howling strike has more then just a striker potential. It becomes good way to get you into the thick of things quick. +2 speed? if you're a orc, you now have a charge of 10 at lvl1.... that's just amazing for getting you to the guy quickly you want to get to. and you do more damage ontop of it? yes please.

Unfortunately that's incorrect. Berserkers do not get the Rage property on any of their own Dailies (which is where the +2 speed comes from) - and I believe they cannot enter Rages in the first place. I'm probably wrong in that regard, though.

You are. Rage is not a class feature, and powers do what they say they do.

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#38 Nov 19, 2011 10:21:24

DuelistDelSol

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You are. Rage is not a class feature, and powers do what they say they do.

Duly noted. :D

#39 Nov 19, 2011 11:20:50

mellored

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LDB's handbooks, while great, are out of date. For instance, there is no pixie, which while lacking Str, can defend from within enemies squares, or charge though them to annoy the back line.

Add stealth for more fun.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

4e stuff

guides

List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)

my builds

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user. Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

#40 Nov 19, 2011 11:34:15

Khan_the_Destroyer

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Agreed. Better not to arbitrarily chain yourself to the old guide. Give yourself the freedom to explore the berserker without trying to hold to what's come before regarding the original Barbarian. If there is overlap, there is overlap.

#41 Nov 19, 2011 11:41:54

Drizzt_hunter

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I disagree a little with what you are saying, Optimization is about making it the best it can be just like you said so in my mind there is a lot of op that can be put into the berserker because you are trying to make him the absolute best that he can be and what he can be the best at is filling two roles. You shouldn't be trying to make him the best defender or striker just like you said instead you should focus on making him rock at being dual roled (the first ever in fact for 4E) because there are situations when you need that defender to deal out damage and finally we have a class that can change from defender to striker at a moments notice.

@ Wecontact:

Not particularlly. The berserker doesnt strike me as having a lot of Hard Op to be done to it, after all Optimization is all about making it the BEST it can be, and the berserker is markedly worse in each of it's individual roles then other roles. For example, why bother optimizing a Berserker to defend when you can use a fighter or paladin and be MUCH better. And on the Striker side of things Ranger is by far the King of Striking.

I still plan on presenting the Optimization options as they are presented to me, also I am using LDB's guide as my template and guide to making this, and my aim isn't to make a HARD CORE optimization guide full of nothing but gold and red but an overview of things.

@lantzkev

I am thinking about dedicating a full post to the three heartlands near the end. And yeah it is premature, but it's a good place to consolidate questions and discussions on the Berserker so that we have a solid knowledge and discussion base. I imagine i am going to be so sick of the edit function in the next few months. @_@

I took it on because I have plenty of free time, and I really like the Berserker.

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