Mr Cellophane: How to be unnoticed.

#2 Sep 11, 2013 8:44:25 (Edited)

mellored

Joined Jul 2008

29685 Posts

View All Posts

View Profile

Block User

Just the numbers:
Nothing fancy, just a list of stuff that gives bonuses to stealth.

Training: Pretty obvious, but it gives +5. Backgrounds are a great way to add this to non-stealthy classes. Some races can get it too.

Dex: The skill is based of it, giving up to a +10 boost. It's also a great stat, giving you AC, and initive.

Armor/Shield: You can take a penalty, though likely you'll be using Dex, so you won't need the heavy stuff.

Backgrounds

Plenty of background that give you +2 so i'm not going to list those.

If your need training, and won't pick it up via an MC feat, grab one of the following.

Luskan: with theivery
Assassin: with arcana
Fugitive from a Vengeful Rival: with bluff
Silent Hunter: with perception

Races

*= Comes with skill training.

Top +2 stealth, +2 Dex, and...
Pixie = Flying gives you immunity to tremor sense.
*Shade = The ability to hide with any cover/concealment, including your ally. Though only really good for support.
Gnome = Reactive Stealth. Start a battle hidden.

+2 stealth and +2 Dex
Razorclaw Shifter
Shadar-kai
Kenku
Goblin
Wilden
Vryloka
Drow
Bugbear

+2 stealth
Kalashtar
Shardmind
Tiefling

+2 Dex, and...
Wood Elf = Reactive Stealth. Start a battle hidden.

+2 Dex
*Eladrin
*Human
Kobold
Half Orc
Changeling
Githzerai
Bladeling
Thri-Kreen
Elf
Halfling
Revenant
Gnoll
Bullywug

Classes

Even if a class doesn't have Dex as a stat, nothing prevent's you from putting points into it.

Dex primary:

Assassin
Assassin (Executioner)
Monk
Ranger
Ranger (Hunter)
Ranger (Scout)
Rogue (Scoundrel)
Rogue (Thief)
Vampire

Dex secondary:

Avenger
Barbarian
Druid
Fighter (Weaponmaster)
Fighter (Slayer)
Shaman
Seeker
Sorceror
Warlock (Hexblade)
Warlock (Binder)
Wizard (Arcanist)
Wizard (Bladesinger)

Feats

Not including every feat, just the good/high bonuses.

Feat bonus:
Stalking Panther Form (druid, wild shape) +5, if you qualify.
Silent Shadows +2 and a reroll, If you have a fellow stealther.
Midnight Stalker +2, more range then silent shadows, but less bonus.
Illusionary Stealth +Int, but you need to hit with a narrow range of powers.
Skill Focus +3, out classes plenty of other +2 feats.
Style Feats (varies) +2, other benifits (such as +Int to gloaming cut) make or break this.
Camouflage (ranger) +5, but conditional.

Untyped:
Untraceable (epic) +5, conditional, but it's hard to imagine when it wouldn't apply.
Familiers (arcane) +2, along with another benifits.
Group Stealth (gnome) +2 racial. For alies.
Dusk Elf Stealth +1 racial, but your allies give it.
Secure Encampment (ranger) +Wis, but only for camping.

Items

Not including everything, just the good/high bonuses.

Item bonus:
Lightstep Slippers (21 feet) +5, but flat out beats tremmor sense.
Shadowflow Armor +3-6, with a very nice encounter.
Gloaming Armor (light armor rare) +1-6, does alot to help get surprise rounds.
Blending Armor (light armor) 1-6, with a solid move action.
Sylvan Armor (light armor common) +1-6, gives a nice bonus to athetics as well.
Reflexive Psychic Shroud (battle scar rare) +2-6, with daily that works vs blindsight.
Orb of the Furtive Mind (orb) +1-6
Boots of stealth (feat common) +2-6.
Boots of Elvenkind (feat) +2-6, with a useful power.
Elven Cloak/Piwafwi (neck) +1-6. Piwafwi is a straight upgrade, but Elven is common.
Sneak's Cloak (neck 9+) 2-6, daily doesn't help much.
Cloak of the Stalking Shadow (14+) 3-6, the daily is powerful, if redundant.
Greater Ring of Invisibility (ring 23) +5 Item, but has a nice utility.
Ioun Stone of Agility (head 23 rare) +4, but it comes with a big bonus to dex damage.
Ioun's Revelation (Boon 3+) +2 to all skills.

Untyped:
Footpad: +1, and conditional, but for 5gp, it's hard to pass up.
Camaflaged Cloths: +2, conditional, but again, 30gp is only expensive at level 1.
Assassin's Cloak (neck) Roll Twice, which averages to +5 untyped.
Wintersnap Armor +1-6, but only in a very specific condition.

PP's

Ghost Panther (Shaman) +Wis AND +5 next to the spirit
Arms-Troubadour (Athasian minstrel theme) Roll Twice, +5 with an AP, and +5 to not fail skill challenges.
Gnome Nightcloak (gnome, paladin) +Cha, along with an encounter invis.
Adept of Whispers (invoker) +2, but more importaintly immune to tremmorsense and blindsight.
Unwelcome Guest (Athasian minstrel theme) Roll Twice
Coiled Serpent (druid) +5 in beast form
Master Infiltrator (rogue) +2, with conditional invis.
Guildmaster Thief (rogue) +2 for allies
Vampire Noble (vampire, beguiling) +2, conditionally +4.
Mercurial Assassin (dragonborn) +3
Watcher of Vengeance (avenger) +2, comes with a "stay hidden" attack.
Gloaming Dancer (assassin) +2
Legendary Hexblade (hexblade, gloom pact): +2
Thuranni Shadow Killer (mark of shadows): +3 to untrained allies.

ED's
+2 to Dex Not even thief of legends gives an actual boost to stealth.

Conditionals, penalty counters, and Misc

Shadowed Legion (assassin 2): Shares your stealth mod with allies as a daily. But it could be worth +40 to stealth.
Secret Stride (feat 11): Removes the movement penalty.
Fleeting Ghost (rogue 2): Removes the movement penalty.
Mire the Mind (warlock): +int, but you have to hit. And since it's not dex based, it can only make up for a lack of stealth.
Shadow Hunter Hide (hide 2+): Let's you move a little further without a penalty. Good for warlocks.
Mounted Combat (feat) Stealthy elephants anyone?

Numbers to beat

Actual numbers are all over the place. So this is my rough estimate of the monster's skills. (if you have a better estimate, let me know).

Easy DC = 50% of the monsters.
Medium DC = 75% of the monsters.
Hard DC = 100% of the monsters.

Add 10 to auto-beat passive.
Add 20 to auto-beat maximum.

vecna has the highest at +34 (followed by 32). Thus 43 (passive), and 53 (active) are the most ever needed. (You also need to get around blindsight.)

Dex (9) + training (5) + level (15) = 29. You should hide 60% of the time.

Add a background (2) and racial bonus (2) = 33. You should hide 80% of the time.

Add skill training (3) and an item (6) = 42. Enemies will have to actively look for you.

Add untraceable (5), and take a ED to bump dex (1), and grab the assassins cloak = 48 (roll twice) Vecna has a .0114 chance of noticing. (.0038 or less for others).

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

4e stuff

guides

List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)

my builds

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user. Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

#3 Sep 07, 2011 13:48:17

mellored

Joined Jul 2008

29685 Posts

View All Posts

View Profile

Block User

Getting Hidden

Invisibility, blocking LOS and such.

Terrain/Lighting: Which is totally DM depenant.

At-Wills and properties.
Cunning Rogue (class feature) Move a little to upgrade concealment to total concealment. It can be improved to work for a shorter distance.
Evermeet Warlock (warlock PP) Only works against a few targetes, and requires a teleport, but it starts you with none. However, they arn't too hard to pick up, and the more you get (such as monk's fallen needle + staff of the traveler + movement boosters + planestrider boots), the better this is.
Thief of Legends (ED) Basicly gives you perma-invisibility. However, it's only as a level 30 feature.
Persistent Tail (stealth 10) Due to some poor wording, this upgrades your cover. Needs a cooperative enemy (or ally).
Elusive Hexer (eladrain, warlock, fey pact) Requires a hit, and only last till the end of the current turn. Though most warlocks will have concealment to stay hidden.
Gathering Night (feat dusk elf stealth) Turn concealment into invis with a standard.
Psionic Veil (psion 27) Need to hit, and only 1 enemy, but it allows several to hide.
Eyebite (warlock 1) Only 1 enemy, and you need to hit.
Veil of the Mind's Eye (battlemind 23) Need to hit, some distance, and only works against 1 enemy.
Emerald Scale Concealment (feat dragonborn, assassin) Not much here, unless your recycling dragon breath.
One with Shadows (Shade racial) Let's you hide with any cover, including allies. However, the standard action is extreamly costly.
Elixir of Invisibility (consumable 6+) Cheap way to get invisible as a minor, but it's uncommon.
Lesser Elixir of Invisibility (7) Why the "lesser" is more expensive i have no idea. But they do thet same thing.

Encounters, dailies, and conditionals.
Shadowflow Armor (23+) Encounter invis as a minor. Pretty nice considering it's the main source of untyped stealth bonus.
Cloud of Darkness (drow racial) Easy way to get stealth.
Hidden Lore (binder) Invis for dropping someone, which can turn up often.
Stalk the Senseless (psion epic) Psions have a few spamable dazing powers.
Greater Ring of Invisibility (ring 23) minor for invis.
Fade Away (gnome) invis as a reaction. This can be buffed a bit.
Delbanian Vambraces (arm 23) Crit's or kills cold powers give you invis, possibly for the encounter if you don't mind some damage.
Assassin's Cloak (assassin feat) Normaly you can just move to hide while invis, but if you invis off turn, or invis on a hit, there's definatly uses for this.
Cloak of Invisibility (23+ rare) Possible encounter long invis, though it takes a standard to start.
Feytouched Armor (12+) Encounter invis as a standard.
Ring of Invisibility (ring 18, rare) Another encounter invis, but as a standard.
Chameleon Ring (ring 16) Let's you stealth without ANY cover. Useful for some situations.

Staying Hidden

Concealment, not being revealed and such.

Terrain/Lighting: Which is totally DM depenant.

At-Will, and properties
Killer in a Crowd (feat, assassin 11) Due to some poor wording, this just flat out gives cover. Of course, many DM's may disagree, and thus make it horrible as the enemy your hiding behind can just point you out.
Shadowband (ring 27, rare) Perma-concealment. No if's, and's, or but's.
Master Thief (Thief PP) You don't get revealed by attacking. Most DM's won't like it, but if you find a nice spot, you can kill everything without being noticed.
Drawn Shadows (feat assassin paragon) Always on assuming you have an enshrouding candle. If not, it's still useful. Note that enshrouding candle can makes it easy to guess your square (in the middle of the darkness). Also, if you want to be cheesy, say there's darkness in your backpack.
Shadow Blend (warlock 2) Same as Drawn shadows (get an enshrouding candle) , except you don't get it on your own turn, or when stunned.
Shadow Walk (warlock) Moving is a pretty easy requirement.
Phantom Chaussures (boots 18) Shadow Walk, the item.
Cursed Shadow (feat assassin, warlock) Shadow walk, the MC feat.
Shadow Dancer (PP) In a round about way, this upgrades concealment to total concealment. But it's really not good for getting hidden in the first place. Invis after an OA isn't shabby either.
Ghostwalker (monk PP) If you CA, you have concleament. If your hidden, you have CA. Combo with Nethermancy (mage 10) to just have it.
Mark of Shadows (feat) Remain hidden on a miss.
Armor of Dark Deeds (leather 14+) Attack with CA, and you have concealment.
Shadow Stride (rogue 10) Move from cover, across the open, back to cover without loosing stealth.
Cloaked Sniper (rogue PP) Missing let's you stay hidden, and shift, but requires concealment/cover.
Shadow of the Wild (feat) Conditional, and with a penalty, but it let's you hit and stay hidden.
Stone Heart Spirit (feat, shaman, world speaker) Mobile cover. Combo's fantasticly with Fading Spirit.
Darting Shadow (assassin 6) Being able to jump from cover to cover is nice.
Enshrouding Candle (wonderous 7) Dim light normaly provides concealment against normal vision.
Twilight Torch (shade 6) Gives you dim light, but cost a minor. Enshrouding candles are generally better.
Ever-Fading Armor (10+) Basicly adds (sustain standard) to any invisibility.
Transcendent ki focus (feat) Requires hitting with a teleport power, and only last till the start of yoru turn.

Encounter, dailies, and conditionals
Rogue Attack Powers Some let you remain hidden. Distracting Shot (1, cunning), Shadow Strike (1), Shadow Steel Roll (3), Fitting Demise (13), Strike of Dancing Shadows (13), Perfect Sniper (27).
Dishonorable Tactics (rogue 16) Adds "remain hidden" to any power.
Greater Ring of Invisibility (Ring 23) After a milestone, it's almost as good as a shadowband.
Ranger Attack Powers Only 1 "remain hidden". Stalking Strike (3)
Watcher of Vengence (avenger PP) 1 "remain hidden". Hidden Dager (11). Though +2 to stealth.
Sandstorm Weapon (any 8) when you drop someone.
Stalker's Armor (hide) let's you keep concealment for an extra turn.
Piwafwi (neck) Daily for Concealment till you attack/are hit. Note that this is not until the end of the enounter. So if your careful, it could possibly last all day.
Smoke Snake (10 consumable) Cost a standard, but it last the encounter.
Blackshroud Weapon (10+) Strictly worse then sandstorm (unless you're attacking an ally, but that's bag-o-rats).

Movement

Anything that let's you shift (paticularly as a free action after an attack) can get you into stealth (assuming you can hide there). I'm not going to list every movement option, but here are some ones that work well.

Move action: Simply attacking then moving works.

Feats:
Mark of Finding Helps keep you adjacent to an enemy, so you can punish/OA.
Mark of Sentinel Any OA. Very nice for those aiming to stay hidden in battle.
Mobile Warrior (feat fighter 21): Shift after most weapon attacks.
Ghostwalker Style (deft strike, effectivly) Free action after the attack.
Purple Dragon (Theme) hit with an MBA.
Opportunity Sidestep (11) After you hit with an OA. Worse then mark of sentinal/mobile warrior, but more readily availible.
Storm Blade Channeling (storm sorcerer, SBC) hit, arcane ranged (in melee). Storm sorc's are dex.
Staff of Travel (con 13) Divine melee.
White Lotus Master Evasion (11, WLE) Arcane at-will hit only. Consider Eldrich Strike.
Predatory Magic (razorclaw) Close arcane only, which limit's it use as an OA.
Silent Shot Phantom/Midnight Blade Whisperer (rogue feat) Adds shift to a few powers.
Criterion of Balic Practice (martial) Adds shift to a few powers.
Power of Trickery (Divne) Adds shift to a few powers.
Secret Recovery (drow) After a saving throw.
Wildblood Speed (warden, wildblood) Shift when marked enemies ignore you. Which would be pretty good, (hide->punish->shift hide) if warden had any use for Dex.
Desert Moon Student Adds shift to a few powers, but only 1/2 the time.
Wild Virtue (bard) Hard to control, but it can show up often.
Stout-Handed Staff (small) If you can knock prone as an OA, this works.

Items:
Boots of chaiphon (feet) you take a little damage, but minor action shift.

Other:
Guardian Counter (theme) Yup, you can shift 2, stealth, take the attack (at -5) then counter attack.
Fallen Needle: (Monk at-will) Shift as a minor. Not a bad pickup for any half-elf.

Countering Special Senses.
Truesight (117 creatures) v Blindsight (199 creatures): (316 total)This may be the same thing as blindsight. Depending on how you read the rules. It just say's "see blindsight".
Nothing counter's truesight.

Walls: Ok, i lied, you can still sneak around a wall or other line of effect blocking stuff. Which can be place by the DM, or summoned via a few spells. But that also means your not close to the action.

Adept of Whispers (invoker PP) Invoker is an odd place. But you flat out are immune to blindsight AND tremorsense . Tack on +2 for stealth for fun.
Elude Senses (stealth util 2) Minor, encounter, 1 turn. Though it cover's tremorsense and darkvision as well.
Grayflower Perfume (Consumable 10) Minor, 1 turn.
Reflexive Psychic Shroud (scar rare 7+) It's a daily, and only for a turn, though covers tremorsense as well.

Tremorsense (206 creatures): Note that this does not need line of effect, or line of sight. So walls won't help.
Flight (movement) There are many ways to gain flight. Including a potion, boots, PP's, or armor.
Pixie (Race) Deserves special mention since they start with flight. Doubly so since they are stealthy.
Lightstep Slippers (boots 21) Immunity with a +5 stealth, a quality choice.
Scorpion Carapace Armor (Scale, Plate +4) An decent alteritive.

Entering your square.

You will always be noticed if an enemy enter's your square.

The first option is simply to not be run over. If you hide behind a defender, or stay in the air, there's little chance of you being noticed.

The second best spot is hide is in their square. They would have to move out, and back to notice. This is a major advantage of pixies, but small races can still to it to large monsters, and medium can do it to bigger. It has the added advantage of helping to give you OAs.

The other option is to take an immidiate "run away" powers, such as Acrobat's Escape. Polearm gamble could would work nicely too.