Phalanx tactics and builds.

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Phalanx tactics and builds.
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#1 Mar 02, 2012 14:47:09
mellored
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We are stronger together then alone.
Phalanx tactics being one where everyone stands close to eachother and gives eachother protection.

Thanks to rancid_rogue, who's added quite a bit to this guide.  And everyone else who contributed.

If i'm missing something, don't hesitate to mention it.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 14:47:23
mellored
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Tactics:


The obvious downside of this is AOE attacks will hit all of you instead of just a few.
Zones: Both benifical and harmful can affect everyone.
Controll effects, such as walls, are more effective, since your party can block off, or be blocked off wholesale.
AOE attacks tend to be less painful then single target.
Assuming 25% AOE attacks, +3 to all defenses will net you a small gain, but remember to factor in the cost of getting it.
You could always break formation when there's alot of AOE, or zones.

Flanking is mostly prevented for both sides.

The other major downside is movement.  As sometime you will have to.
You can delay/ready to move together.
This can be mitigated somewhat with power selection.  Reorent the axis, and persistant tail are prime examples.
It's possible to make enemies come to you via forced movement.
Reach and ranged attacks are also things to consider.  You have to move less.
Since your not likely to move, find things to use your move action on.

4 PC's can stand in a box and let everyone be adjacent to everyone else.
Pixies can fly, and/or share a space letting 5 stand adjacent.
Other methods of flying will allow 8 total creatures to all be adjacent.
If everyone contributes, you can end up with massive bonuses.

6 medium PC's can all be adjacent to 2 core phalanx cores.
The 2 core will make this tactic worth while.

1 fully dedicated PC can be the core, supporting 8 PC's.
This will more or less break even.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 14:47:48
mellored
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Classes:
Runepriest = resist all 2/4/6, doesn't stack with other rune shield.

Feats:
Shield the Fallen (dwarf) =+2 while they are bloodied.
Mantle of Caution: +2 to NAD's while you are bloodied.  Burst 5 (or 10 with extended mantle).
Sword of Hestavar: More damage with CA.
Warding Shield (paladin/cleric) = +2 Ref.
Protector Spirit Adept = +1 NADs.
Phalanx Warrior (fighter/warlord) = +1 shield bonus to AC
Sprit of Hestavar: +2/4/6 to surge value.
Shield of Hestavar: Resist all 2/4/6 vs marked enemies.
Elemental Compainions (genasi warlord) = Manifestation resists/saves (better with dual manifestation)
Warding Defense = +2AC Ref with total defense.
Group Defense (half-elf paladin) =+1 defense against marked foes
Sideways Defense (human-fighter) =+1 defense against marked foes
World Speaker Adept (shaman, world) = ignore difficult terrain.
Watcher Spirit Adept (shaman, watcher) = +2 perception and insight.
Sentinal Spirit (shaman, watcher) = +2 to-hit on OA's
Kord's Resilence (goliath): share stone's endurance.
In Shining Armor: +1 shield bonus AC
Teamwork defense = +1 AC, if everyone has the feat.
Rose King's Reprisal = 1 HP on any surge
Majestic Presence: resist necrotic and radiant.
All-Seeing Eye of the Guardian (paladin) = no CA from being flanked.  You generally won't be flanked.
Ninth Legion Sheild/Commander (fighter/warlord) = +2 feat bonus AC/Ref

PP's
Rune Shield = +4 all defenses, must use runic attack, and can't move.
Knight Commander = +2 attack
Gatekeeper of the Golden Palace = +4 to saves, extra saving throws
Justiciar = Immunity to fear/charm, reroll a save (end of turn only), and +1 to saves.
Spell Commander: Upgrades basic attack to at-wills (arcane only).
Sigil Carver = +2 power to all defenses.
Rainbringer = regen 2, and lot's of THP
Dwarven Defender  = +1 AC and reduced forced movement (can be importaint to rune shield)
Enlightened Word = shift 2 on a hit

Themes:
Feybeast : Displacer: +1 power bonus to defense.
Elemental Priest: +1 power to all defenses.  Assuming it works at all...
Ordained Priest: +1 to saves.
Disgraced Noble: +1 to saves while not bloodied.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 14:48:17
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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Powers:
Magic Weapon (artificer A1): very nice boost to offense.
Glamor Blade (swordmage): Phalanx with yourself.  Better with archmage.
Martial Redoubt (fighter U10) = Allies get cover (and can stay hidden), but you grant CA.  Stance.
Warp in the Weave (Arcana U6): spend a surge to avoid an AOE.  You can share it with a pixie (or vice versa).

Items:
Offerings of Celestian Set bonus: Can solve all mobility problems, though it's not cheap.
Absorbing Shield: More missing for AOE's.  Note that these can be chained.
Guardians Armor: Resist all 3-6, requires a power point.
Armor of Aegis Expansion: Big damage reduction 1/encounter.
Shield of Fellowship:  THP for those who did get hit.
Battle Standard of the Stalwart/Vanguard: +1 power bonus to all defenses/attacks.
Battle Standard of (others):  Depending on your party setup, these could be pretty nice.

ED's:
Dispossesed Champion:  When you shift, allies can shift closer.  Auto-surge on bloodied.
Pyreen: Start of turn saves
Immanence: Share resists.  (belt of brokeness + revenant)
Mythic Spirit: When you save, allies can save
World Tree Guardian: +1 attack, +1 defense, or THP
Avatar of Freedom: +2 to some saves.
Avatar of Justice: conditional +1 to hit.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 14:48:32
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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Builds.



[sblock Maximus Decimus Meridius]
By: Rancid_Rogue's

Here's a spear-and-shield build that will routinely provide +6 AC to an adjacent ally at level 12

Maximus Decimus Meridius 
Level 12 Human Fighter/Son of Mercy 
Str 21, Con 14, Dex 15, Int 9, Wis 17, Cha 11 
Athletics, Endurance, Insight, Perception 
Detective Background 
Fey Beast Tamer Theme (repackaged as faithful war dog, Skippy) 

1: Spear Expertise 
1: Sideways Defense 
2: Ninth Legion Student 
4: Ninth Legion Shield 
8: Improved Defenses 
11: Polearm Momentum 
11: Armor Specialization (Scale) 
12: Repel Charge 
12: Last Legion Defender
   
That breaks down to:

+1 all defenses to all adjacent to Maximus (including Skippy, who badly needs it)
+2 feat AC and Reflex all adjacent allies vs enemies adjacent to Maximus
+1 power all defenses to all adjacent to Skippy (including Maximus)
+2 AC to Maximus and one adjacent ally when he OAs (which he'll do pretty often thanks to push/prone/slow with Tide of Iron and Repel Charge)

Plus automatic CA for anyone adjacent to Skippy, the reskinned displacer beast.
[/sblock]
Death's Gatekeeper, but with the rainbringer PP for mass THP, sub-zero survivability, and some defenses.
Swordburst Maximus, but with sigil carver PP, and a lightning glaive.  Put enemies where you want them, and drop them prone.
Killswitch, magic weapon spammer with lot's of attack granting.
The Great Uniter: THP and damage boost just for focus firing.
F-111 Interdictor: Teleport your allies.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 14:49:29
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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Teams:



[sblock Rancid_Rogue's party...]

LTS Runepriest/Monk/Rune Shield. Remainder of party delays so that he goes first. Strict protocol for player: Move to desired target (if not already adjacent) then attack. Everyone else will form up on him.

LTS Cleric|Ranger/Rainbringer. This is a cludge build because Rainbringer is a headache of a PP. The Rainbringer needs to bring a power with the Healing keyword on demand. This build would have Longtooth Shifting, Healing Word, Invigorating Stride, Bastion of Health, Word of Vigor, Balm of Rain, and Unexpected Return all qualifying at L16 ... and I'd still probably want Recovery Strike as an at-will backup. Also, we don't want to waste all of those lovely roll-twice skills. As a hybrid, this build can cherry-pick the three skills, with two pegged to its secondary and the third receiving a racial bump.     

Pixie Swordmage/Sigil Carver. I've decided the Pixie needs to be the Swordmage for two reasons: There's not a lot of phalanx PPs that fit the race's attributes well and the Sigil Carver thrives on being in the back row. As the only PC that can float around the formation freely, the Pixie can just about ensure that it's removed from its marked target(s). Should grab ranged encounters and dailies when feasible.

Dragonborn Warlord/Knight Commander. Must have Direct the Strike, because one problem with the phalanx is that when your adjacent focus-fire target dies in the middle of the batting order, you generally can't reroute the phalanx to a new target. So, the bottom of the order needs to have some ranged potential. I prefer the melee-centric bravura build, but that one at-will gives him real ranged potential with the right allies ...

Wood Elf Druid|Seeker/Gatekeeper of the Golden Palace. ... which unfortunately do not include the Druid and his total lack of RBAs. So I'm pondering a hybrid controller here, though the jury is still out. It's also odd to have the controller go last as a matter of routine, so I'm still not entirely thrilled with this lineup.
[/sblock]

[Sblock Mello's Team, estimated 2KPR]
Gnome Lazylord|Wizard/Knight Commander.  Wintertouched + Sword of Hestavar.  Ninth Legion Student for OA's.  Tome cheeze + Illusury wall and other LOE/LOS blocking wizards spells.  Dispel Magic.  Feybeast theme (displacer mount)

Revenant (Dwarf) Lazy Warlord|Ardent/Dwarven Defender.  Lend might, and a chieftan weapon, we're graning +4 to hit on attacks.  Ninth Legion Student for OA's.  Shield the fallen, mantle of caution, unnatural mantle.  Covers movment with battlefront shift, and reorent the axis.  Absorbing Shield.  Ordained Priest theme.

Half-Elf Paladin|Fighter/Gatekeeper of the Golden Palace.  Mass marking, group defense, sideways defenese, daunting challenge, Shield of Hestavar, and spamming magic weapon with defending dabbler, admixture cold.  Totaling -5 to not attack him and big bonus damage.  Absorbing Shield.  gladiator theme (keep them close).

Pixie Thief/something damaging.  Basic attacks like a boss.  Get attacks from Gnome, Revenant, and Dwarf (via Agile Oppertunist).  Iron wolf theme.

Dwarf Serene Runepriest|Invoker/Rune Shield.  Minion killing, forced movement, RBA#2.  As well as the massive +4 rune shield.  Rune of the Astral Winds.  Absorbing Shield.  Knight Hospitaliter theme.

Defenses:
+4 rune shield
+1 dispalcer
+2.5 mark (1/2 the time)
+1 shield the fallen (1/2 the time)
+1 mantle of caution (1/2 the time)
= average bonus is about +8

resist 6
Extra saves.
a turn below 0.

Offense:
+2 Knight Commander
+1 Magic weapon
CA via frost cheese.

Damage:
+8 Magic weapon
+6 Sword of Hestavar
+5 Frost mafia.
+Optimized striker damage * 4

The thief will probably have .4 KPR, if not higher.  I'll count .2 for the others.
Thief basic = .4
Warlord Direct the strike = .8
Warlord direct the strike = 1.2
Invoker + rune of astral winds = 1.4 / 1.8
Defender = 2
[/sblock]

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 02, 2012 14:55:13
thespaceinvader
Joined Oct 2010
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Obvious high points in party-op: elemental themes, radiant mafia.  Runepriests, those Hestavar feats.  Obvious pitfalls to avoid: things like non-cooperative defenders, auras and marks really don't play nicely together.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
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Mar 02, 2012 15:08:24
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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Obvious high points in party-op: elemental themes, radiant mafia.  Runepriests, those Hestavar feats.  Obvious pitfalls to avoid: things like non-cooperative defenders, auras and marks really don't play nicely together.

I could see some pretty nice stuff with 2 polearm fighters...

M= Monster
F = Fighter
A = Ally

  A
MFFM
   A

Mark (and prone) the guy adjacent to the other fighter, and watch them figure out how to get around to you.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 15:38:18
ThatWasTotallyNinja
Joined Jan 2011
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I'm assuming the fighters are both Polearm Masters so they can punish the mob where it is...

Enemies with reach are an issue, and setting it up that way isn't always easy. I like the concept though.
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Mar 02, 2012 15:45:08
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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I'm assuming the fighters are both Polearm Masters so they can punish the mob where it is...

Enemies with reach are an issue, and setting it up that way isn't always easy. I like the concept though.

Fighters have a few "adjacent enemy attacks an ally" powers that would work well.

Especially with rapid combat challenge  

Hybrids also work.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 15:56:51
Rancid_Rogue
Joined Mar 2009
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It's been a while since I played with this concept, but my early experience would suggest the following ground rules:

1. Someone has to be a Pixie. That way they can share a space with another PC, and a party of up to five can all be adjacent to one another in a 2-by-2 square. The advanced Greek and Successor phalanxes were built on 6-by-6 to 10-by-10 subunits. We will do them much better. ;)

2. The Sigil Carver (and there's always a Sigil Carver) happily takes up one of the two "back" spaces. The Dex 15 is a tough nut, but Arcane Reach and Sword Burst are awesome for a phalanx Sigil Carver.

3. It's ideal for a second party member to wield a staff and, even if primarily a ranged build, have at least one melee at-will that they can use at reach with the implement.

4. Despite my example Fighter in Post 5, or the hybrid Shaman that I hastily inserted in my all-striker party on the Broken Handbook thread, companions are generally a bad idea if there's no room for them in the square. A 4-PC party can afford a single companion, a 3-PC party can afford two, etc. Depending on DM you can play fast and loose with Pixie and/or certain companions parking over the other PCs' heads, but it's getting a little silly at that point.   

5. Ideally, a phalanx party has a Wood Elf controller or controller|striker hybrid with Wisdom as primary or secondary. (Hybrid Druids will be awesome for a phalanx.) This PC will nigh automatically go first in every encounter. His Job One will be to ensure that his allies go second through fifth. If necessary, these allies will delay in round one to ensure that the party's batting order is just so. From that point, as long as no monsters take their turn between members of the phalanx, the party will be able to move and coordinate fairly easily. 

6. A good phalanx must run off a rigid script. A good phalanx is throwing up 10 different partywide benefits at any given point in the first five rounds. You can't "wing it" and not routinely bump into keyword conflicts that neuter much of what you're trying to do.


          
  
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Mar 02, 2012 16:09:11
Rancid_Rogue
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Some tactical concepts:

1. A phalanx party is like a jouster. (Anyone else watching "Full Metal Jousting"? I enjoy it immensely.) There's no avoiding the hit. You just have to be tougher than the hit. A phalanx should be designed so that every party member is sporting defender++ AC and NADs (Sigil Carver, Runepriest, etc), and easily recuperates modest damage (Rainbringer). Bursts and blasts generally don't do horrific damage or carry crippling riders. You take the shot, in the infrequent case that it lands, you bounce it off your THP shield and keep fighting.  

2. The trick is not to fight in a square. The trick is to end the PCs' turns in a square. Splitting the phalanx into a gantlet so that the Druid can ram Mr Monster down it with Charm Beast is pure win, provided either two PCs can move afterward to clean up the configuration or a PC can slide his allies into shipshape afterward.      

3. Phalanxes love forced movement. Team Monsters' job will be to reach the back rank, mainly to nullify the Sigil Carver (who will be destroying anything that can't reach him). The party has to slide those flies back around to the teeth end.  
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Mar 02, 2012 16:16:27
crepuscular
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What about a Dwarven Defender?
+1 untyped to AC for you and adjacent allies, and adjacent allies can reduce forced movement by one.
And the level 12 utility gives adjacent allies a boost to will.
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Mar 02, 2012 16:22:15
Rancid_Rogue
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What about a Dwarven Defender?
+1 untyped to AC for you and adjacent allies, and adjacent allies can reduce forced movement by one.
And the level 12 utility gives adjacent allies a boost to will.

He's in there. I rank phalanx PPs roughly in this order:

1. Sigil Carver
2. Knight Commander
3. Rainbringer
4. Dwarven Defender  
5. Gatekeeper of the Golden Palace
6. Rune Shield
7. Master of the Forge

What am I missing? Anyone?        

EDIT: The more I clarify my understanding of runepriests and Rune Shield, the more favorable it becomes. It probably moves up to No 3 now, bumping Rainbringer and company down a notch.
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Mar 02, 2012 16:30:20
Antillious
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An interesting sub-category might be using a phalanx while providing your own allies (fey beast tamer, sentinel, beastmaster ranger, familiar, etc). That way, you get some of benefits without inucrring additional risk to the rest of your party.
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Mar 02, 2012 16:37:51
Rancid_Rogue
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An interesting sub-category might be using a phalanx while providing your own allies (fey beast tamer, sentinel, beastmaster ranger, familiar, etc). That way, you get some of benefits without inucrring additional risk to the rest of your party.

I'd suggest that's a trap. The phalanx concept works best at 5 PCs, including one pixie, because the more partywide benefits being piled on, the better. Maybe one companion with a nice aura 1 effect can be justified in a four-PC party, but generally companions aren't going to bring nearly the same impact to the phalanx that an additional PC would bring.

After five PCs (or just four sans Pixie), you have to start figuring out who stands next to whom to get what, and an already complex party build starts passing the limits of what a hobby should demand ... 
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Mar 02, 2012 16:45:42
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
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An interesting sub-category might be using a phalanx while providing your own allies (fey beast tamer, sentinel, beastmaster ranger, familiar, etc). That way, you get some of benefits without inucrring additional risk to the rest of your party.

I'd suggest that's a trap. The phalanx concept works best at 5 PCs, including one pixie, because the more partywide benefits being piled on, the better. Maybe one companion with a nice aura 1 effect can be justified in a four-PC party, but generally companions aren't going to bring nearly the same impact to the phalanx that an additional PC would bring.

After five PCs (or just four sans Pixie), you have to start figuring out who stands next to whom to get what, and an already complex party build starts passing the limits of what a hobby should demand ... 

Not neccicaraly...

You could always ride your beast.  Halfling on a displacer beast for instance.

Also, later levels, flying gives you 8 total squares to fill. 

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Top
Mar 02, 2012 16:48:17
mellored
Joined Jul 2008
29685 Posts
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What about a Dwarven Defender?
+1 untyped to AC for you and adjacent allies, and adjacent allies can reduce forced movement by one.
And the level 12 utility gives adjacent allies a boost to will.

He's in there. I rank phalanx PPs roughly in this order:

1. Sigil Carver
2. Knight Commander
3. Rainbringer
4. Dwarven Defender  
5. Gatekeeper of the Golden Palace
6. Rune Shield
7. Master of the Forge

What am I missing? Anyone?        


Ruen Shield seems like it should be higher.

Yes, it's vuln to forced movement, and take an attack to activate, but +4 untyped > +2 power of the sigil carver.  Or at least close to it.

Of course, they stack.  And for the list.

Not sure Master of the Forge should be there.  It's a 1 person target, doesn't stay, ect...

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 02, 2012 16:49:37
Koshinuke
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Have the pixie be a gloom pact hexblade with MC fighter, dragging flail, flail expertise, trancendent ki focus, and using an abduction ki focus.  That would give the party a reach 3 with prone+slide 2.  If you were willing to stay with reach 2, you could do prone+slide 3 with a different ki focus instead of trancendent.  That would allow a striker, who would have high init since it is dex based, position monsters where the party wants and increases the advantage of positioning for the party.


How about this set up:


DA
AD
With the pixie somewhere over or in the party. 

That would put a defender on each side, they all would still be adjacent and with the pixie moving monsters, it would be hard for a monster to be where a defender could not get him.  only two squares from what I see and the pixie would easily be able to slide the target.         
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Mar 02, 2012 16:54:33
curiousdragon
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A little high level but...an Absorbing Shield is a nice option.
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Mar 02, 2012 16:55:39
mellored
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Honestly i'm not sure you'd need a defender...  (except for mabey dwarven defender...)

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 02, 2012 16:59:11
Rancid_Rogue
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After five PCs (or just four sans Pixie), you have to start figuring out who stands next to whom to get what, and an already complex party build starts passing the limits of what a hobby should demand ... 

Not neccicaraly...

You could always ride your beast.  Halfling on a displacer beast for instance.

Also, later levels, flying gives you 8 total squares to fill. 

True, though now you're getting a little into concepts needing DM permission. The only way that I know to mount a small PC on a companion requires a Ranger's beast companion. You're not really going to go out of your way to bring that suckage to the party, but sure, if the DM allows you to apply Beast Rider to a Fey Beast Companion, join the party.

Also, flying's all well and good for spirit companions and Pixies. Anything else is begging to get dropped on the ground floor PCs' heads. Since Pixies don't need to "overhead rack" to fit in the square anyway, that really only leaves spirit companions as safely parked overhead and there's some debate whether that's legal.

YMMV, but it's generally simplest to plan for a party of five.   

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Mar 02, 2012 17:04:00
Rancid_Rogue
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Honestly i'm not sure you'd need a defender...  (except for mabey dwarven defender...)

The Sigil Carver will always be at least half defender, and I doubt that many good phalanx concepts will lack one. The Dwarven Defender doesn't have to be a defender at all, though it probably won't hurt. In my test runs, it generally was ideal to keep the monsters pointed toward a "front edge." It's a phalanx, not a Swiss Square. ;)

That's the same reason I keep Master of the Forge in the back of my head when on this topic. Yes, the U12 only helps one ally, but if that ally is a heavy-armor defender with high sticky, then MotF may have a very nice place in the party build.

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Mar 02, 2012 17:33:17
Rancid_Rogue
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Hey Mellored,

On Rune Shield: That +4 untyped certainly is enticing, and now that I think more about it, a phalanx could largely circumvent the restriction by having the Runepriest always last in its batting order with strict instructions to move first and attack second. Then his rider should remain intact through the monsters' turns, barring forced movement. That's the main catch. But then add the Dwarven Defender to the mix and maybe some Defiant Boots at epic and ... 

My other beef with Rune Shield is that --- by my understanding of Runepriests --- while in that rune state you have to give up the lovely Destruction and Protection riders that add the oomph to your powers. Am I interpreting that correctly? 

I'm starting to envision a striker|Runepriest hybrid who doesn't give a damn about those riders. He'd probably need extra protection vs OAs as the last piece of the square squeezing himself into place. Hm ... 
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Mar 02, 2012 17:46:04
mellored
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Hey Mellored,

On Rune Shield: That +4 untyped certainly is enticing, and now that I think more about it, a phalanx could largely circumvent the restriction by having the Runepriest always last in its batting order with strict instructions to move first and attack second. Then his rider should remain intact through the monsters' turns, barring forced movement. That's the main catch. But then add the Dwarven Defender to the mix and maybe some Defiant Boots at epic and ... 

My other beef with Rune Shield is that --- by my understanding of Runepriests --- while in that rune state you have to give up the lovely Destruction and Protection riders that add the oomph to your powers. Am I interpreting that correctly? 

I'm starting to envision a striker|Runepriest hybrid who doesn't give a damn about those riders. He'd probably need extra protection vs OAs as the last piece of the square squeezing himself into place. Hm ... 

You get the runestate when you use a runic power (including rune of mending, as minor).  You get all the riders no matter what.

Hybrid just looses the basic +1/resist "aura", but their using the PP one anyways.

Serene make wonderful hybrids as well.  And help since the runepriest doesn't have the +4 itself.

but yea... move -> attack, and you don't really loose anything.

Edit: And half-elfs can do it by just MCing runepriest. 

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 02, 2012 17:57:08
Rancid_Rogue
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You get the runestate when you use a runic power (including rune of mending, as minor).  You get all the riders no matter what.

I've never quite understood this. The way I read it, Runepriest picks power, then picks rune state. The rider follows the rune state he picked. So when the Runepriest picks Iron Shield, he gets no rider, because no powers have an Iron Shield rider. Where am I reading that wrong?


EDIT: I think I see. You don't pick Iron Shield as a rune, but afterward as an alternate rune state. Veeeery interesting.   

but yea... move -> attack, and you don't really loose anything.

I wouldn't quite say as much. With so much hinging on that particular PC remaining in place, the DM will be sorely tempted to have a pusher, puller, or slider in every Team Monster that he fields. As DM, I'd be bull-rushing minions at him. ;)
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Mar 02, 2012 18:01:01
Illeist
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After five PCs (or just four sans Pixie), you have to start figuring out who stands next to whom to get what, and an already complex party build starts passing the limits of what a hobby should demand ... 

Not neccicaraly...

You could always ride your beast.  Halfling on a displacer beast for instance.

Also, later levels, flying gives you 8 total squares to fill. 

True, though now you're getting a little into concepts needing DM permission. The only way that I know to mount a small PC on a companion requires a Ranger's beast companion. You're not really going to go out of your way to bring that suckage to the party, but sure, if the DM allows you to apply Beast Rider to a Fey Beast Companion, join the party.


That's actually no longer the case. With the Rules Compendium's rewrite of Mounted Combat rules, the only requirements to ride a creature are that it must be one size category larger than you and willing. So Beast Rider has joined the ranks of Barreling Charge and Paragon Defenses.
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Mar 02, 2012 18:09:22
Rancid_Rogue
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That's actually no longer the case. With the Rules Compendium's rewrite of Mounted Combat rules, the only requirements to ride a creature are that it must be one size category larger than you and willing. So Beast Rider has joined the ranks of Barreling Charge and Paragon Defenses.

Fair enough. Who knew that you could be a 4E grognard? [Raises hand. Already knew that his system mastery suffers from old age.] I still don't think you'll see much synergy from cramming companions into the phalanx concept -- adding more bodies to ground zero isn't the point, the point is to add more adjacent-ally benefits -- but it does add an interesting new dimension.
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Mar 02, 2012 18:33:05
Project_Vile
Joined Dec 2004
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I made a character quite awhile back that used clustering that'd fit the bill pretty well here.  I was pretty new to CO at that point, but I think the build is still pretty decent.

Amaranth

Edit:  On second thought, I was too new.  The build kinda sucks. ;)
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Mar 02, 2012 19:35:55
mellored
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I still don't think you'll see much synergy from cramming companions into the phalanx concept -- adding more bodies to ground zero isn't the point, the point is to add more adjacent-ally benefits -- but it does add an interesting new dimension.

I agree, but Feybeast come with aura's.

Though i don't remember what they all are...  so i'm not sure there are any worth taking.

Edit:
Displacer: +1 power bonus to defense.  Nice, won't stack with sigal carver.
Blinkdog: Teleport 1-2.  A little more mobility, but not much.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 02, 2012 19:48:38
Koshinuke
Joined Feb 2012
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I can think of two that would help.  The displacer beast is +1 to all defences to the displacer beast's allies and the fey panther which states that enemies in the aura cannot gain combat advantage.  When I first saw the fey panther, I thought of a fighter that focused on brash strike and uses a fey panther, no CA for the target if the pet is right next to them and if you are 5th level, the pet grants you CA instead.

Would be hard to get suprising charge with a fey panther around because you would have to make sure you are out of the aura or you wouldn't have combat advantage for the extra weapon damage. 
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Mar 02, 2012 21:30:09
Rancid_Rogue
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I can think of two that would help.  The displacer beast is +1 to all defences to the displacer beast's allies and the fey panther which states that enemies in the aura cannot gain combat advantage.

As mellored pointed out, the displacer bonus is +1 power and thus doesn't stack with a Sigil Carver. One has to be very careful about keyword duplication when trying to put this sort of party together.

As for CA: A phalanx PC already is immune to standard flanking as long as he stays in the square.

I'm sure there would be a few builds that could exploit a Fey Beast, but there'll be an opportunity cost, too.       

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Mar 02, 2012 23:45:26
raleel
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For the pixie, i would think that an enchantment/illusion mage would be a good choice. the enchantment has extremely strong forced movement (slide/pull them in) and illusion has many strong penalty inflictions (penalties to hit, status conditions) that normally don't have issues stacking. Not to mention spells like Visions of Avarice, Hypnotic Pattern, and Illusory Wall.
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Mar 03, 2012 12:35:52
mellored
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What's the % of AOE attacks?  (25%?)

I know they are generally weaker then single target ones.  So dodging 25% (+3 to all defenses) single target attacks while getting hit with 25% more AOE (+3 to all, 2x the attacks) is a win.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 03, 2012 12:51:09
Scatterbrained
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Seems like Battle Standards might be of use, at least when you've dug in or have a way to drag enemies to you.

Also, I'd really prioritize those "all defenses" bonuses.  It's nice that you can boost AC so high, but those blasts/bursts you need to watch out for are going to be targeting NADs.
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Mar 03, 2012 12:51:47
gerald_dachicago
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Another great thread mellored!

my defender is partial to Guardians Armor  and a Shield of Fellowship.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
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Mar 03, 2012 14:15:19
yappo
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Checkered formation (optionally with multiple beasts). Think black squares only on a chess-board.

Aura 1 effects will cover half, up to all party.

Versatile in as much as you can decide if you're preferring a wedge or mandibles formation.

Main advantage is either the opportunity to always being able to shift into a safe 'white' square if things go south, or the opportunity to pull a target into a killing zone.

Optional beasts provide flanking opportunities (wedge), or flanking defence (mandibles).
Maintankadin build
Maintankadin
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Mar 03, 2012 14:55:37
Rancid_Rogue
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What's the % of AOE attacks?  (25%?)

I know they are generally weaker then single target ones.  So dodging 25% (+3 to all defenses) single target attacks while getting hit with 25% more AOE (+3 to all, 2x the attacks) is a win.

That's really hard to reckon because a) no DM picks his monsters randomly and b) many monsters have a burst or blast that they can use per encounter, on a recharge, when bloodied, then go back to swinging away vs AC.

I wouldn't argue with your 25% estimate, with the caveat that any DM who wants to raise that percentage will find the tools to make it happen.

Regardless, we don't really need to know that to consider the effectiveness of blanket NAD bumps. Assuming a PC's NADs average to making monsters miss about half the time (and they will assuming two good NADs, Improved Defenses, and a current neck-slot item), then:

+1 to NADs breaks even at suffering NAD attacks 11% more frequently
+2 at 25%
+3 at 43%
+4 at 67%
+5 at 100%
+6 at 150%

Any decent phalanx party will be at least +3 and ideally +6 to NADs.

Now, here's the thing: If I'm a DM playing Team Monster intelligently, and Team Monster has a few bursters and/or blasters in its mix, then I'm not going to engage the PCs where they can easily avoid clumping, anyway. The most fluid, every-man-for-himself party in the world still has to clump to negotiate an antechamber, a stairwell, etc.

I'm confident that a phalanx isn't going to suffer enough extra AoE attacks to overcome its innate extra resistance to those attacks.             
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Mar 03, 2012 14:57:30
Rancid_Rogue
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Checkered formation (optionally with multiple beasts). Think black squares only on a chess-board.

I'm afraid that's trap thinking. Only the center chesspiece bestows adjacent ally benefits in that formation. There's no single PC build that bestows enough of those to make clumping a worthwhile tactic. Every PC should bring something to the phalanx.

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Mar 03, 2012 15:06:46
mellored
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Checkered formation (optionally with multiple beasts). Think black squares only on a chess-board.

I'm afraid that's trap thinking. Only the center chesspiece bestows adjacent ally benefits in that formation. There's no single PC build that bestows enough of those to make clumping a worthwhile tactic. Every PC should bring something to the phalanx.


I disagree.

A fullly loaded PC can be enough for a chekerboard pattern.  Especially if you only need +2 to break even  (you get +4 via rune shield).  However, that's gunna be a pretty focused PC.  And your really only breaking even with the resorces spent compaired to a different build PC.

That said, if everyone brings something, you get a MUCH better return on investment.  You also have less weaknesses  (such as teleporting the core PC out of the way).

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Powers to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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Mar 03, 2012 16:45:19
RayjeEliwan
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The Enlightened Word PP gives you a rune state that lets allies adjacent to you shift 2 squares as a free action when they hit something. It'd take some practice and party coordination, but that could be used to do some really fun things when it comes to moving the phalanx without breaking it. (For example, if the Runepriest is 2 squares away from the target foe, allies just break formation to get adjacent to the Runepriest, hit the foe, and shift back into position.)
That Rune Aimer: A Runepriest's Handbook
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