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I find it symptomatic that all three of the core (ab)uses in this build derives from a single basic mechanic; that is, being able to use weapons as implements.

Level 9: Retrain Enlarge Spell for Hybrid Talent: Orb of Imposition ?????
Level 10: Enlarge Spell ?????

Enlarge Spell
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Wis 13, wizard
Benefit: Before using an arcane attack power, you can choose to take a -2 penalty to each die of damage rolled with the power to increase the size of its blast or its burst by 1.
You can’t use this feat on a power that doesn’t roll dice for damage.
First published in Arcane Power.

Hybrid Talent
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Hybrid character
Benefit: You gain a hybrid talent option from one of your hybrid class entries. You can’t choose an option that you already have.
First published in Dragon Magazine 375.

Face of Death
You create a vision of the reaper of souls before your foes’ eyes, and they freeze in terror of their impending death.
Daily Arcane, Fear, Illusion, Implement
Standard Action Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: The target is immobilized (save ends).
First Failed Saving Throw: The target is helpless (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is slowed (save ends).
Miss: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is slowed (save ends).
First published in Arcane Power.

Every time you gain a level, you can retrain your
character: change one feat, power, or skill selection
you made previously. You can make only one change
at each level. When your class table tells you to replace
a power you know with a different power of a higher
level, that doesn’t count as retraining—you can still
retrain an additional feat, power, or skill as normal.

I thought Windrise Port allowed you to take two multiclass feats that are specific to a CLASS.

It does not let you take a weapon-based multiclass feat as far as I know.

Weapon Mastery feats have appeared before in “We Who Are About to Die . . .” (Dragon 368, page 56) and “Playing Shadar-Kai” (Dragon 372, page 5). Those articles rightly described the initial training feats for weapon mastery as multiclass feats. They failed to make clear that those multiclass feats—Bola Training, Net Training, Spiked Chain Training, and Whip Training—are class-specific multiclass feats.

A non class-specific MC feat is for example "Novice Power", as it still lets swap an encounter power even if you retrain your class-specific MC feat into another class-specific MC feat.

Btw, regarding the "using weapons as implements"-debate, there's one thing in this build that I don't understand:
Just how do you attack with both the Glaive and the Staff at the same time? Even if you had chosen the Dual Implement feat this wouldn't be possible, or what did I miss?

you would still benefit from any property that the implement has

Another thing regarding the discussion (which has mostly been about if you can use a weapon's power with an implement attack or not) is that it has, AFAIK, completely missed to deal with the mundane effects of weapons when used as implements. Is it, for example, reasonable and balanced that a Sorcerer can use a non-melee push 1 power with a Glaive-as-implement and through PM and a pair of Rushing Cleats push 2 all targets and make them prone? What does the mundane weapon's polearm group have anything to do with powers that very well may be targeting enemies even outside of its physical reach (as this build's Enlarged, Resounding, Thunderous Scorching Burst does)?

I might buy that the mundane weapon-as-implement features (such as Polearm) could work with a melee touch power such as a Reaper's Touch at-will, but seriously, with something potentially happening 10 squares away and not being melee? Mundane weapon features should be treated exactly as their proficiency bonus IMO, ie they do not apply to implement attacks. But according to RAW, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Yeah - it's fine (as currently ruled). In fact you could also use the Orb of Imposition on the spell effect as well (after switching it in with the hand as a free action) as the wording is "You can designate one creature you have cast a wizard spell upon that has an effect that lasts until the subject succeeds on a saving throw." i.e. you don't actually need to use the orb as an implement (or even be wielding it at the time of casting) to cast the spell. You only need to be wielding the orb when you apply the orb effect.

The Immo-bola-izer is a very powerful trick though. It gives you the power of the fisherman without the need for polearms and (salve-powered) difficult terrain.

One could build a rather nice Swordmage|Avenger with huge AC (stacking Swordmage Warding with Armor of Faith) that uses a bolas with (enlarged?) Swordburst to immobilize all adjacent enemies. Use a Disembodied Hand to switch between offensive mode (bolas) and defensive mode (longsword?) as a free action.

You could even use the Mark of Storm with your already admixtured Swordburst to precisely position enemies (outside of their melee reach for example).

Well, I also think it's RAW (at least currently) and I guess it should be mentioned again that I have myself (ab)used the "PM+Glaive-as-implement+sliding arcane power"-combo (in my [THREAD=1215967]Cool Stormtrooper[/THREAD] build, for example). But I've always considered it a bit over-the-top, perhaps even more than the Bloodclaw+Reckless combo. Your way of seeing it gave me some new perspectives, though.

But, the comparison to other implements, such as the “orb-ness” of an orb feels a bit off to me. I mean, a non-magical orb has no properties (other than being an orb implement) and "confers no benefit", as the PHB1 describes it, while mundane weapons certainly both have properties and confer significant benefits. The mundane orb is like a weapon that says: "Military, Heavy Blade" and nothing else. It doesn't add any damage, nor does it have any proficiency bonus or any other enhancing properties. It can be combined with several feats and it can be used with several powers, but it still won't have any real mechanical effect (except perhaps in extreme corner cases or as an improvised weapon), just as the mundane orb. So in terms of mechanical effects, a mundane orb actually has very little "orb-ness", IMO.

I hope I didn't completely derail the thread now...

And btw, I love the build! (Piling nifty cheese on nifty cheese is something I love, the more exotic the cheese the better! So your build is my current shining no 1!)

Using weapons as implements is one thing. Applying reach is quite another, and strictly not covered. As written, I'd say it doesn't work, because there's no text that even remotely implies it does.

And please let me know if I can put it up with the other [THREAD=1215967]Stormtroopers[/THREAD]!

It's like Kerrus says, but it's actually covered by the rules. Your weapon(/implement) cannot increase the size/reach of powers with a specified size/reach, the power would instead need the "weapon" tag (which only comes with powers that have both the Weapon and Melee keywords, the range then naturally being dependent on the weapon's and wielder's range). It doesn't even work for powers that uses the weapon (there's even an epic Fighter feat that enables you to turn your Fighter burst 1 attacks into burst 2 if you wield a reach weapon).

The only issue with it is that the bolas training requires a martial class which neither swordmage or avenger qualifies. So you'd have to use Windrise Ports to get Warlord/Bolas, Fighter/Bolas or Rogue/Bolas and hence not be able to MC wizard for enlarge spell.

Still - a close burst 2 swordburst (with thunder combo) is pretty cool with sliding and immobilizing. And when your AC is stupid high (you can get to AC 35 at level 11) you can afford to have them immobilized and adjacent.

Whip Training [Multiclass Whip]
Prerequisite: Dex 13, any martial class
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the whip. When you hit a target with your whip, that target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls against a target of your choice until the end of your next turn.
First published in Dragon Magazine 368.

I've done a build up to level 11 (hence the AC 35). But it's yet to actually take any multiclasses yet. I share the opinion with another poster on these boards that a build should mature by level 16 at the latest and hence I'm still tweaking it a little. I'm actually thinking of trading off a bit of that AC to ensure the build works earlier.

I much prefer taking shielding swordmage aegis. In my opinion it's the stickiest ability out there. My DM hates it. Alot.

I'm toying around with totally dumping wisdom and losing out on the avenger powers or dumping constitution and going for an ensnarement swordmage.

Shielding Version @ level 16

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Githyanki, Swordmage|Avenger, Paragon Hybrid
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Swordmage Aegis
Hybrid Avenger: Hybrid Avenger Will
Hybrid Talent: Armor of Faith
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Shielding
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder
Arcane Admixture Power: Sword Burst
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 24, Wis 11, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 41 Fort: 24 Reflex: 27 Will: 23
HP: 122 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 30

TRAINED SKILLS
History +22, Arcana +20, Religion +20, Endurance +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +8, Heal +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +7, Nature +8, Perception +8, Stealth +9, Streetwise +7, Thievery +9, Athletics +9

FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Storm
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 6: Improved Armor of Faith
Level 8: Arcane Familiar
Level 10: White Lotus Riposte (retrained to Student of Battle at Level 11)
Level 11: Greater Swordmage Warding
Level 12: Bola Training
Level 14: Arcane Admixture
Level 16: Resounding Thunder

POWERS
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst

ITEMS
Summoned Feyleather Armor +4, Disrupting Bola +3, Warsoul Longsword +1, Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of Quickness (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Mundane Weapon Properties and feats affecting spells that do not have the weapon keyword is abusing poorly written rules.

A weapon/implement's magical property affecting a spell is RAI.

That is simply ludicrous. I can see the firm foundation for a one-handed staff implement, because the books specifically declare that a staff implement (though not weapon) is wielded in one hand. Specific overrides general, and when used as an implement the staff needs one hand to wield.

However, in no manner does the wielding requirements for weapons get addressed with a specific rule for wielding in one hand when weapons are used as implements. Unless there was an explicit text stating that all implements are one handed (there is not*), or that heavy blade or polearm implements are one handed (there is not*), then they retain the wielding requirements of the weapon itself.

This is where the basis of 4E comes into play...specific overrides general. There is a specific rule stating that a staff implement can be wielded in one hand; this overrides the general requirement that a staff be wielded with two hands.

The glaive has no specific rule to override its general requirement; thus to wield it you will need two hands.



*if I am wrong on either count, please correct me and I will rescind my argument.

Shielding Immo-bola-izer (level 16)

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Stacy, level 16
Human, Swordmage|Avenger, Paragon Hybrid
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Shielding
Hybrid Avenger: Hybrid Avenger Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Armor of Faith
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Swordmage Warding
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder
Arcane Admixture Power: Sword Burst
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 22, Wis 17, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 41 Fort: 28 Reflex: 31 Will: 29
HP: 119 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 29

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +14, Arcana +19, Religion +19, History +19, Heal +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +11, Insight +11, Intimidate +7, Nature +11, Perception +11, Stealth +8, Streetwise +7, Thievery +8, Athletics +9

FEATS
Human: Mark of Storm
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 4: Improved Armor of Faith
Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Hide)
Level 8: Focused Expertise (Longsword) (retrained to Arcane Familiar at Level 11)
Level 10: Student of Battle
Level 11: Bola Training
Level 12: Greater Swordmage Warding
Level 14: Arcane Admixture
Level 16: Resounding Thunder

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Lightning Lure
Hybrid Avenger at-will 1: Bond of Censure
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst
Paragon Hybrid: Impenetrable Warding
Paragon Hybrid: Dazing Rebuke
Hybrid encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity
Hybrid daily 1: Wings of Light
Hybrid utility 2: Enduring Spirit
Hybrid encounter 3: Transposing Lunge
Hybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding Fire
Hybrid utility 6: Swordmage's Decree
Hybrid encounter 7: Thunderclap Strike
Hybrid daily 9: Blade Bolt
Hybrid utility 10: River of Life
Hybrid encounter 13: Ensnaring Bolts (replaces Angelic Alacrity)
Hybrid daily 15: Eldritch Chains (replaces Wings of Light)
Hybrid utility 16: Aegis of Lost Souls

ITEMS
Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of Quickness (heroic tier), Mage's Cutting Wheel +1, Summoned Darkhide Armor +4, Disrupting Bola +3, Amulet of Mental Resolve +4, Strikebacks (heroic tier), Strongheart Tattoo (heroic tier), Handy Haversack (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

This character relies on being a high-AC defender in heroic with extra stickiness caused by having lots of powers which mark the enemy with an aegis which reduces their damage by 6 (increases to 12 points at level 11).

Throughout heroic tier she is using a longsword in the main hand with an off-hand mage's cutting wheel for extra defence. At level 11 she starts to utilize an arcane familiar to swap between her "offensive weapon", a +3 disrupting bola, and her "defensive weapon", the cutting wheel. Since we can swap this as a free action we can even swap out the wheel for the bola (and back again) on opportunity attacks. The actual plus of the wheel is irrelevant - we're only using it for the +1 AC (we get free proficiency with "mage's"). Even with the bola in the main hand and the wheel in the offhand we only lose 2 AC (in paragon).

At level 11 we can now immobilize all adjacent enemies with our swordburst. At level 16 this increases to a close burst 2 with slide 1 (you could snag this earlier if you don't mind losing a bit of AC).

The idea is that you pull as many enemies adjacent to you as possible relying on your uber-AC to protect you and keep them there with your swordburst (after level 16 we'll start to add damage and white lotus riposte). You will nominate one enemy for your party to burn down, mark them, then release them from the trap so that the strikers in your party can flank etc, everyone benefiting from nice damage reduction.

As I understand it, Bola negates damage to immobilize, and Enlarge Spell can't be used on a power that doesn't roll dice for damage, so they can't be used together.

Oooh. Good catch. This gives me yet another reason to clean up this post. I created it just pre-transition and have yet to make it more legible. I will edit out the Enlarge Spell part when I clean this up. Thanks!