Community

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

WotC seems to be under the impression that Warlocks are defenders, and they keep giving them feats and stuff that would make most defenders salivate. And they do. I mean this build to accomplish two things:
1. Demonstrate that warlocks can now be workable second defenders.
2. Create a core module to make defender|defenderlock hybrids into beastly defenders.

The Defenderlock

The first key of the build is the feat Protective Hex, which gives cursed enemies a -2 to attack our allies.
The second key of the build is the various defensive bonuses we get from warlock, including Warding Curse, Armor of Dark Majesty and shadow walk. Sage of Ages boosts that further.
The third key of the build is the variety of debuffs we can get through warlock, as a debuff-controller.
The last key is to pick up a true mark. In this case, we MC paladin for an encounter-long mark and grab Defending Dabbler to mark with our Blazing Starfall dilettante. We can now hit a large number of targets with a mini-mark in our curse, mark the BBEG with DC, and area mark with Blazing Starfall. We don't have a true mark punishment, but the sheer number of penalties we can lay down will give us some stick, and at greater range than primary defenders.
A variation would focus on beefing the DC even more with a Bradaman's weapon and Contagious Challenge, letting us mark even more.

Added a new variant of the build, credit to Auspex7 for initiating the shift. The new Defenderlock is now a conlock, Con/Int build. Defenses are still deceiving, against cursed targets with Trick of Knowledge we are at 51/48/50/47 defenses. Much more reliable, no? Also swapped out the psychic weapon and Mind-numbing curse for a radiant weapon and Curse of the Blind Stars, with other goodies. Now we can forgo our curse damage on encounters and dailies to blind our opponents, and we gain 8 temp hp every time we hit with...anything.

Con Defenderlock

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 30
Half-Elf, Warlock, Hexer, Sage of Ages
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact: Infernal Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Rod)
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (light blade group)
Background: Arcane Sentinel (+2 to Arcana)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 26, Dex 13, Int 24, Wis 11, Cha 15.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 11.

AC: 42 Fort: 41 Reflex: 41 Will: 40
HP: 183 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 45
TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +22, Thievery +21, Arcana +37, Insight +22
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +21, Endurance +23, Heal +15, History +30, Intimidate +17, Nature +21, Perception +15, Religion +30, Stealth +16, Streetwise +17, Athletics +16
FEATS
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: White Lotus Riposte
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Arcane Reserves (retrained to Shield Proficiency (Light) at Level 22)
Level 8: Mark of Warding
Level 10: Adept Dilettante
Level 11: Protective Hex
Level 12: Deva Heritage
Level 14: Versatile Master
Level 16: Twofold Curse
Level 18: Psychic Lock
Level 20: Defending Dabbler
Level 21: Warding Curse
Level 22: Radiant Recovery
Level 24: Defensive Enchanting
Level 26: Curse of the Blind Stars
Level 28: Robust Defenses
Level 30: Epic Will
POWERS
Dilettante: Static Shock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Strike
Warlock encounter 1: Vampiric Embrace
Warlock daily 1: Vile Brand
Warlock utility 2: Fast Hands
Warlock encounter 3: Fiery Bolt
ITEMS
Starleather Armor of Dark Majesty +6,
Iron of Spite (epic tier),
Ring of Free Time (epic tier),
Avandra's Ring (epic tier),
Zehir's Gloves (epic tier),
Rod of Corruption +1,
Belt of Breaching (paragon tier),
Sandals of Avandra (epic tier),
Radiant Dagger +6,
Rhythm Blade Spiked shield +1,
Cloak of Distortion +6
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

The Build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 30
Half-Elf, Warlock, Hexer, Sage of Ages
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact: Star Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Rod)
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Twofold Pact: Infernal Pact
Background: Arcane Sentinel (+2 to Arcana)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 26, Dex 13, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 26.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 16.

AC: 37 Fort: 41 Reflex: 40 Will: 42HP: 183 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 45
TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +28, Intimidate +34, Arcana +38, Insight +22, Endurance +28
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Diplomacy +25, Dungeoneering +21, Heal +15, History +25, Nature +21, Perception +15, Religion +25, Stealth +16, Streetwise +23, Thievery +16, Athletics +16
FEATS
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: White Lotus Riposte
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 8: Mark of Warding
Level 10: Ulban's Flare
Level 11: Protective Hex
Level 12: Twofold Pact
Level 14: Versatile Master
Level 16: Twofold Curse
Level 18: Psychic Lock
Level 20: Defending Dabbler
Level 21: Warding Curse
Level 22: Soldier of the Faith
Level 24: Group Defense
Level 26: Weakening Challenge
Level 28: Robust Defenses
Level 30: Epic Reflexes
POWERS
Dilettante: Blazing Starfall
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Strike
ITEMS
Sorrowsong Blade Bastard sword +6, Deep-Pocket Cloak +6, Starleather Armor of Dark Majesty +6, Iron of Spite (epic tier), Ring of Free Time (epic tier), Avandra's Ring (epic tier), Zehir's Gloves (epic tier), Quickcurse Accurate rod +1, Accurate rod of Corruption +1, Rod of Ulban +5, Belt of Breaching (paragon tier), Sandals of Avandra (epic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Credit to Crimson Lancer for the first use of the term Defenderlock, even if I didn't realize he had.

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#2 May 12, 2010 1:51:41

Polaris

Joined Jun 2003

10153 Posts

The huge problem with your build is your AC sucks and given what you are doing (controller/defender role), you are going to be targeted by sharp pointy objects.

I think this build works a lot better as a hybrid (I'd go with Paladin|Warlock) especially since you can get a couple of very nice Paragon Paladin feats that synergize very well with your build (such as contagious challenge).

-Polaris

#3 May 12, 2010 2:03:37

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

The huge problem with your build is your AC sucks and given what you are doing (controller/defender role), you are going to be targeted by sharp pointy objects.

I think this build works a lot better as a hybrid (I'd go with Paladin|Warlock) especially since you can get a couple of very nice Paragon Paladin feats that synergize very well with your build (such as contagious challenge).

-Polaris

Hmm? Oh, right, the defenses.
With Armor of Dark Majesty, Warding Curse, Shadow Walk and Trick of Knowledge(which we get most of the time), our defenses are really more like

46ac/50f/49r/51w
That'll drop a bit against area attacks or enemies that ignore concealment.

As for hybrid, hang around a bit, I'll post the link in here ;)

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#4 May 12, 2010 2:39:46

Alcestis

Joined Oct 2009

8509 Posts

I don't remember the build, but I played in an LFR group that actually had a very decent Conlock as a tank. He just kept generating THP from something and he just wouldn't die. Reminded me a lot of a BRV fighter. Obviously less sticky, but as a concept I think it works pretty well.

#5 May 12, 2010 2:41:45

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

Here we go:
Darth ******* Vader

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#6 May 12, 2010 2:54:52

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

I don't remember the build, but I played in an LFR group that actually had a very decent Conlock as a tank. He just kept generating THP from something and he just wouldn't die. Reminded me a lot of a BRV fighter. Obviously less sticky, but as a concept I think it works pretty well.

Hexhammers have been around for quite a while, and they do indeed work out pretty well. This isn't quite a hexhammer variant, but does use some of the same stuff.

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#7 May 12, 2010 3:33:04

Polaris

Joined Jun 2003

10153 Posts

The huge problem with your build is your AC sucks and given what you are doing (controller/defender role), you are going to be targeted by sharp pointy objects.

I think this build works a lot better as a hybrid (I'd go with Paladin|Warlock) especially since you can get a couple of very nice Paragon Paladin feats that synergize very well with your build (such as contagious challenge).

-Polaris

Hmm? Oh, right, the defenses.
With Armor of Dark Majesty, Warding Curse, Shadow Walk and Trick of Knowledge(which we get most of the time), our defenses are really more like
46ac/50f/49r/51w
That'll drop a bit against area attacks or enemies that ignore concealment.

As for hybrid, hang around a bit, I'll post the link in here ;)

I was playing around with a Swordmage|Warlock concept myself earlier so that posting was useful and I thank you for it.

However, I think it still suffers from fairly low defenses and your Full Warlock on this thread definately does. He has after all modifiers (many of which you admit won't count against attacks that ignore concealment which many will) an AC of only 46 at level 30.

That doesn't cut it as a defender (however, the hybrid defenses do cut it). At level 30, monsters will have at least +30 to hit just from monster level alone, and a quick glance at the high level monsters scaled up indicate a to-hit more like +35 or +36 or so which means even AFTER all the positive adjustments you still get hit half the time (or more) and you don't have the defender hit points to go with it.

It's a neat idea, but again IMHO better as half a hybrid.

Defenses are only half the problem, however. The other half is that many of the best Warlock powers (that you'd want as a defender-lock or controller-lock) are charisma powers while the key ones are based on Constitution.

This is why after trying to build both, I think the Paladin|Warlock is a better overall hybrid than the Swordmage|Warlock.

-Polaris

#8 May 12, 2010 12:19:41

furious_kender

Joined Oct 2007

2152 Posts

The huge problem with your build is your AC sucks and given what you are doing (controller/defender role), you are going to be targeted by sharp pointy objects.

I think this build works a lot better as a hybrid (I'd go with Paladin|Warlock) especially since you can get a couple of very nice Paragon Paladin feats that synergize very well with your build (such as contagious challenge).

-Polaris

Hmm? Oh, right, the defenses.
With Armor of Dark Majesty, Warding Curse, Shadow Walk and Trick of Knowledge(which we get most of the time), our defenses are really more like
46ac/50f/49r/51w
That'll drop a bit against area attacks or enemies that ignore concealment.

As for hybrid, hang around a bit, I'll post the link in here ;)

I was playing around with a Swordmage|Warlock concept myself earlier so that posting was useful and I thank you for it.

However, I think it still suffers from fairly low defenses and your Full Warlock on this thread definately does. He has after all modifiers (many of which you admit won't count against attacks that ignore concealment which many will) an AC of only 46 at level 30.

That doesn't cut it as a defender (however, the hybrid defenses do cut it). At level 30, monsters will have at least +30 to hit just from monster level alone, and a quick glance at the high level monsters scaled up indicate a to-hit more like +35 or +36 or so which means even AFTER all the positive adjustments you still get hit half the time (or more) and you don't have the defender hit points to go with it.

It's a neat idea, but again IMHO better as half a hybrid.

Defenses are only half the problem, however. The other half is that many of the best Warlock powers (that you'd want as a defender-lock or controller-lock) are charisma powers while the key ones are based on Constitution.

This is why after trying to build both, I think the Paladin|Warlock is a better overall hybrid than the Swordmage|Warlock.

-Polaris

This build is splitlock, and can take cha or con powers. Also, the warlock build is an off-tank, with loads of thp. It also is a ranged defender, so it shouldn't be starting off in the middle of things. Durability is not going to be an issue with this build.

My Monk Handbook

#9 May 12, 2010 13:07:16

sirapropos

Joined Nov 2004

54 Posts

I actually play a Dwarven Hexhammer in LFR that's more of a Defender/Controller. In addition to Protective Hex I also have Hammer Shock which Rattles for an addtional -2 penalty to hit. You have to MC into a class that gives Intimidate but it has been worth it so far.

#10 May 13, 2010 13:35:16

rtrnofdmax

Joined Jul 2007

390 Posts

Here is a lvl 30 build of the 5th lvl Hexhammer I am currently playing in LFR. It's a hybrid with Warden to get the defenses and the forms. He is really hard to hit on AC, Fort and Ref, but laughable on Will. Forgeborn more or less eliminates the risks of elemental damage. Reserve Maneuver lets him use strictly Warlock encounter powers, thus ignoring his low Str. Let me know what you think:

[spoiler]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Bearn, level 30
Dwarf, Warden|Warlock, Underchasm Darkwatcher, Champion of Prophecy
Hybrid Warden: Hybrid Warden Fortitude
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Constitution
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Warden's Armored Might
Guardian Might: Earthstrength
Prophetic Blessing: Prophetic Blessing Constitution
Prophetic Blessing: Prophetic Blessing Intelligence
Background: East Rift, Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 30, Dex 12, Int 24, Wis 15, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 10, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 8.

AC: 50 Fort: 48 Reflex: 47 Will: 35
HP: 218 Surges: 19 Surge Value: 64

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +30, Dungeoneering +24, Perception +24

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +14, Arcana +22, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Heal +17, History +22, Insight +17, Intimidate +15, Nature +17, Religion +22, Stealth +14, Streetwise +15, Thievery +14, Athletics +14

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level 4: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 6: Forgeborn Heritage
Level 8: Iron Hide Resilience
Level 10: Rune-Scribed Soul
Level 11: Reserve Maneuver
Level 12: Protective Hex
Level 14: Paragon Defenses (retrained to Robust Defenses at Level 21)
Level 16: Armor Specialization (Hide) (retrained to Second Skin at Level 22)
Level 18: Stone Step Spirits
Level 20: Dwarven Durability
Level 21: Warding Curse
Level 22: Earthstrength Might
Level 24: Student of the Athanaeum
Level 26: Epic Fortitude
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 30: Superior Initiative

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Warden's Lunge
Reserve Maneuver: Fortune Binding (retrained to Sea Tyrant's Fury at Level 17)
Hybrid encounter 1: Chains of Levistus
Hybrid daily 1: Form of Mountain's Thunder
Hybrid utility 2: Ethereal Stride
Hybrid encounter 3: Breath of Chaos
Hybrid daily 5: Tyrannical Threat
Hybrid utility 6: Bear's Endurance
Hybrid encounter 7: Howl of Doom
Hybrid daily 9: Form of the Stone Sentinel
Hybrid utility 10: Spiritual Rejuvenation
Hybrid encounter 13: Soul Flaying (replaces Chains of Levistus)
Hybrid daily 15: Form of the Avalanche Unleashed (replaces Form of Mountain's Thunder)
Hybrid utility 16: Vile Resonance
Hybrid encounter 17: Warden's Lure (replaces Breath of Chaos)
Hybrid daily 19: Void Star (replaces Tyrannical Threat)
Hybrid utility 22: Eagle's Wings
Hybrid encounter 23: Arrow of Arcane Light (replaces Howl of Doom)
Hybrid daily 25: Form of the Shifting Ancestor (replaces Form of the Stone Sentinel)
Hybrid encounter 27: Shattering of the Sword (replaces Soul Flaying)
Hybrid daily 29: Form of the Starmetal Warrior (replaces Form of the Avalanche Unleashed)

ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Heavy Shield, Amulet of Protection +6, Pact Hammer Craghammer +6, Magic Elderhide Armor +6
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[\spoiler]

#11 May 18, 2010 14:37:14

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

Added a conlock variant of the defenderlock, credit goes to Auspex7 for laying the groundwork for the change.

Defenses are now much better, using radiant for more damage, and generating temp hp when we hit. Good stuff. I think we're up to true off-defender levels now.

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#12 Jun 04, 2010 2:15:00

durntaur

Joined Jun 2009

834 Posts

I've been working on a backup character along the lines of the Darth Vader build using a half elf and while looking for the dilettante power I came across a few alternatives to Blazing Starfall for the faux mark that might benefit the Defenderlock:

Chilling Cloud - I don't know if its -2 penalty to attack (which doesn't require a hit) stacks with Psychic Lock, but if it does you're looking at a total of -6 to attack when you include Defending Dabbler, and it's party friendly. Throw in Arcane Admixture (thunder) and Resounding Thunder and you have a huge 'mark'; maybe throw in some Frostcheese.

Winged Horde - doesn't require Sorrowsong Blade for psychic damage, can be used with AA/RT, is party friendly, and prevents opportunity actions.

Dishearten - this was the first area at-will I looked at when I was looking for CON or INT-based attacks and deserves a mention though Chilling Cloud blows this out of the water. It's not party friendly, but it attacks Will and gets you the -6 (maybe there is more, but I'm just looking at Psychic Lock and Defending Dabbler).

#13 Jun 05, 2010 4:01:58

Chemicalpoet

Joined Oct 2007

118 Posts

Well, it's not exactly straight up "defenderlock", but I threw together a Paladin|Warlock/Bard (hybrid and paragon multi-class), and surprisingly enough, he's not only durable (29 AC, 24 Fort., 26 Ref. 25 Will at lvl 12, with appropriate gear), but he can dish out respectable (we are talking about the 'Lock here) ranged damage whenever he needs to, and has enough support/CC toys from Bard to really make things interesting. n_n

This is one of the only times I'd ever condone Hybrid+paragon option mixing, but he sure is fun to run with.

#14 Jun 08, 2010 20:55:11

Inferenz

Joined Jan 2010

1 Post

I've been working on a variation of this concept using a hybrid paladin/warlock inspired by The Crimson Legion fluff from Dragon 381 WR Tieflings. CHA paladin merged with a CHA infernal warlock. The warlock powers selections focus on forcing enemies to violate your marks and trigger sanctions.

Infernal pact boon with bloodied boon feat to get a good source of THP along with many ways to spread and burst curses and divine sanctions. Stacking minuses and catch-22 damage abound.

Plate armor. Two daily utilities (Charm of Hearts, Divine Aegis) that with Mark of Warding can provide +3 each to all defenses for an encounter. Charm of Hearts even prevents OAs, which meshes great with using ranged powers while tanking. Pop them both for 52a 49f 47r 48w. Add +2 if the thing attacking you is cursed. (Warding Curse.)

Starfire Womb is a good fit here with the abundance of available fear and radiant powers which will now grant saves.

Primary at-will is Enfeebling Strike against a marked and cursed target:
+36 attack, 2d8+17 damage, extra -2 to attack rolls against you or -4 against allies (Protective Hex) on top of a -3 mark, -2 to AC (Power of the Moon)
If it was your DC target, spread a DS to an adjacent enemy (Contagious Challenge).

Level 30

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mar, level 30
Tiefling, Paladin|Warlock, Paragon Hybrid, Legendary Sovereign
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Rod)
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Warlock Pact Boon
Sword of Kings: Castigating Strike
Background: Tiefling - Dark Secret, Arcane Sentinel, Out for Revenge (+2 to Arcana)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 24, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 28.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 16, Dex 8, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16.

AC: 46 Fort: 43 Reflex: 41 Will: 42
HP: 202 Surges: 17 Surge Value: 50

TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +31, Religion +23, Arcana +25

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +13, Diplomacy +24, Dungeoneering +17, Endurance +20, Heal +17, History +18, Insight +21, Intimidate +24, Nature +17, Perception +22, Stealth +15, Streetwise +24, Thievery +13, Athletics +14

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Imperious Majesty
Level 4: Wrath of the Crimson Legion
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Mark of Warding
Level 10: Starfire Womb
Level 11: Contagious Challenge
Level 12: Bloodied Boon
Level 14: Protective Hex
Level 16: Power of the Moon
Level 18: Paragon Defenses (retrained to Robust Defenses at Level 21)
Level 20: Armor Specialization (Plate)
Level 21: Warding Curse
Level 22: Weakening Challenge
Level 24: Paladin's Truth
Level 26: Divine Mastery
Level 28: Student of the Athanaeum
Level 30: Epic Reflexes

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Hellish Rebuke
Hybrid at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Paragon Hybrid: Price of Cowardice
Paragon Hybrid: Vengeful Vigilance
Paragon Hybrid: Delusions of Loyalty
Hybrid encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Hybrid daily 1: Majestic Halo
Hybrid utility 2: Charm of Hearts
Hybrid encounter 3: Lure of Minauros
Hybrid daily 5: Tyrannical Threat
Hybrid utility 6: Call of Challenge
Hybrid encounter 7: Far Realm Phantasm
Hybrid daily 9: Decree of Khirad
Hybrid utility 10: Troublesome Aid of Caiphon
Hybrid encounter 13: Castigating Strike (replaces Valorous Smite)
Hybrid daily 15: Knight's Defiance (replaces Majestic Halo)
Hybrid utility 16: Divine Aegis
Hybrid encounter 17: Wrathful Smite (replaces Far Realm Phantasm)
Hybrid daily 19: Passionate Betrayal (replaces Decree of Khirad)
Hybrid utility 22: Failure is No Option
Hybrid encounter 23: Demand Respect (replaces Price of Cowardice)
Hybrid daily 25: Discipline the Unruly (replaces Knight's Defiance)
Hybrid encounter 27: Wrathful Flame (replaces Wrathful Smite)
Hybrid daily 29: Name of Awe (replaces Passionate Betrayal)

ITEMS
Rod of Corruption +1, Imposter's Godplate Armor +6, Brooch of Vitality +6, Holy Avenger Longsword +6, Belt of Vitality (epic tier), Ring of Free Time (epic tier), Ring of Tenacious Will (epic tier), Swiftstrike Shoes (paragon tier), Eye of Discernment (epic tier), Bracers of Zeal (epic tier), Spell Anchors (heroic tier), Symbol of Unified Defense +2, Strongheart Tattoo (paragon tier), Battle Standard of the Hungry Blade (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Crimson Legion Champion (Tiefling Paladin|Warlock, Questing Knight, Legendary Sovereign)

#15 Jun 11, 2010 13:02:40

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

lots of Awesome stuff

Inferenz, I regard your build as one of the better defenders I've seen. If you don't mind, I'm going to include it in an upcoming thread I am making.

Also, you should join us in ##4e, where all the Ultimate Defender magic happens!

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#16 Jun 11, 2010 18:20:15

Inferenz

Joined Jan 2010

1 Post

lots of Awesome stuff

Inferenz, I regard your build as one of the better defenders I've seen. If you don't mind, I'm going to include it in an upcoming thread I am making.

Also, you should join us in ##4e, where all the Ultimate Defender magic happens!

Thank you! I had a chance to play it in a build-test level 11 delve last week. It was very strong and very fun, even at the start of paragon. Although it may need a way to deal with being grabbed - that low Athletics/Acrobatics hurts it.

Looking at the equipment in that build again I may need to double check the purchase costs.

Feel free to take it and run with it.

Crimson Legion Champion (Tiefling Paladin|Warlock, Questing Knight, Legendary Sovereign)

#17 Jun 11, 2010 21:17:03

Inferenz

Joined Jan 2010

1 Post

Post edited above. I tweaked on the equipment some.

Crimson Legion Champion (Tiefling Paladin|Warlock, Questing Knight, Legendary Sovereign)

#18 Aug 10, 2010 9:41:48

jtd

Joined Aug 2010

23 Posts

Inferenz, any updates to this build in the last 2 months?

Specifically, would you still go with Paragon Hybrid over your original Questing Knight or would you go with something else?

Im also curious if youre still happy with the power choices.

#19 Nov 11, 2010 4:07:23

kongsaurus

Joined Jan 2009

51 Posts

Now we can forgo our curse damage on encounters and dailies to blind our opponents, and we gain 8 temp hp every time we hit with...anything.

What feat/power/item grants this...?

#20 Nov 11, 2010 9:23:22

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

Now we can forgo our curse damage on encounters and dailies to blind our opponents, and we gain 8 temp hp every time we hit with...anything.

What feat/power/item grants this...?

Curse of the Blind Stars for blindness.

Radiant Recovery for thp.

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#21 Nov 11, 2010 19:48:44

theziner

Joined Jun 2008

634 Posts

First off you should be using a cloak of translocation as you have an at will teleport at lvl 10. Just grab to enhancers up to teleport 3 and you have shadowalk and +2 ac and reflex all day long. Second, what about rod expertise instead of light shield?

I'm working on a Cha/Con Paladin|Warlock/Fighter Avernian Knight. Avernian Knight allows you to use melée weapons you are proficient with as an implement. Guess what? Free Staff implements! Aversion staff bumps all your defenses by 2 against a creatures you have effects on. Your warlocks curse is an effect. Divine challenge is an effect. Divine sanction is an effect.
A little implement swapage with a hand familiar, some warlock/ paladin D10 curse damage and your set.

Theziner

#22 Nov 11, 2010 22:20:35

Joined Mar 2008

1545 Posts

The Munchkin Fallacy The Theoretical Optimization Manifesto Modularity: A Guide to CO Tricks and Tactics Ultimate Defenders

First off you should be using a cloak of translocation as you have an at will teleport at lvl 10. Just grab to enhancers up to teleport 3 and you have shadowalk and +2 ac and reflex all day long.

I chose Cloak of Displacement because of the synergy with his existing defensive options. He gets +4 to all defenses against cursed targets, and he can curse anything within 5. Since Cloak of Displacement is a +enh against all enemies outside that radius, he's basically covered against enemies both far and near. I felt the ranged protection was more important than the boost from Cloak of Translocation (which is to say, no, I should NOT be using a cloak of translocation).

Second, what about rod expertise instead of light shield?

I don't use rods, I use a radiant dagger. It gives me a damage boost, lets me work in melee, and lets me use Curse of the Blind Stars, which is HUGE.

Plus, the spiked shield Rhythm Blade is worth +2 AC/Reflex already.

I'm working on a Cha/Con Paladin|Warlock/Fighter Avernian Knight. Avernian Knight allows you to use melée weapons you are proficient with as an implement. Guess what? Free Staff implements! Aversion staff bumps all your defenses by 2 against a creatures you have effects on. Your warlocks curse is an effect. Divine challenge is an effect. Divine sanction is an effect. A little implement swapage with a hand familiar, some warlock/ paladin D10 curse damage and your set. Theziner

That's a fun concept, I look forward to seeing it posted.
That won't work well for the pure defenderlock, but good fortune to you on it. Darth Vader uses Avernian Knight, so I hear you on its benefits.

As a side note, as I'm looking at my CB file for the con defenderlock it looks like I replaced the shield with an Aversion Staff. Apparently I was of the opinion that you don't need to be able to use the staff as an implement (or even wield it in 2 hands) to get the defense bonus.

Darth Vader, Ultimate Defender, Swordmage|Warlock/Avernian Knight Thunderstruck, Striking Swordmage The Defenderlock Arcane Slasher --nerfed Nightcrawler, a Shift Slasher build --nerfed

#23 Jan 15, 2012 5:02:01

Jordan175

Joined Jul 2011

336 Posts

I'm curious as to why no-one is suggesting Battlemind as the defender part of the equation?

-The CON based attacks have synergy, and mean you have lots of base hit points. Heck, if you chose powers carefully and boosted reflex/will via feats and items you could get away with just putting all your stat buy points into a base 19 CON score.
-"Toughness" and "Psionic Toughness" stack to give you 8 extra HP per tier.
-Hybrid talent can give you scale armor.
-It also has a ton of temp-HP generating powers and feats.

So basically you become a wall of hit points, with all their attacks blunted by THP and resistances.

Of course the other worry with a defender is being too tough- the enemies might just take the penalty and attack your allies.
Eldritch strike fills the Battlemind's lack of a opportunity attack nicely, and with flail expertise you can knock down anyone who tries to walk away from you (assassin's bane means they can't shift or teleport either). Lodestone lure is finicky to use, but it can mean that one unlucky enemy simply cannot get away from you.

I'm building something based on this idea using a Mul so I can stack Forgeborn and Akanul. However I am still fairly new to charop, and would welcome input from all of you.

"Ha! Rock beats scissors!" "Darn it! Rock is overpowered! I'm not playing this again until the next edition is released!" "C'mon, just one more." "Oh, all right..." "Wait, what is that?" "Its 'Dynamite' from the expanded rules." "Just because you can afford to buy every supplement that comes out..." "Hey, it's completely balanced! You're just a bad DM for not accommodating it."

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RPGs are getting more popular, and whenever something gets more popular, it inevitably changes, usually becoming more palatable to the masses. Nintendo is the perfect example. In the old days their games coined the term "Nintendo hard" to extend play time, but they knew their fans were dedicated enough to play anyway. Now they mostly make stuff a five year old can master. That's not necessarily bad, though. Most of those old Nintendo games were infuriating. Likewise, a lot of old RPGs were too complex and irritating for the average person to really get into. Rules light systems are going to get more popular as more people enter the hobby, simply because the new people aren't bound by nostalgia, and would rather play something easy and fun than something that takes a huge amount of effort to learn.

#24 Jan 15, 2012 10:49:01

SonsofNorthWind

Joined Mar 2009

453 Posts