The Silent Death: A Handbook to Sniper Rogues

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The Silent Death: A Handbook to Sniper Rogues




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What is this Guide?

This Guide it entirely devoted to the art of playing a ranged rogue, power options, common MC and other discussions. I created this Guide since playing a ranged rogue is considered a 'niche' and I think in general that it differs enough from a standard rogue to warrant its own specially catered handbook.


Why play the ranged rogue?


Many people hold their noses up when talking about ranged rogues since the idea of using a bow is generally considered the territory of rangers. Common conceptions are that a ranged rogue is inferior to a melee rogue. Common conceptions could not be more wrong!

A range rogue is still a rogue! As a result, you still are one of the kings when it comes to controlling enemies, applying mind numbing debuffs while still applying significant single target damage. While being ranged will prevent you from accessing certain immensly popular rogue powers (knockout), there are many new powers for the ranged audience which are more than compensate. You are just as accurate as a dagger based melee rogue before feats, and pack a larger punch! You will take a small hit as a debuffer, although if thats a role you relish, there are still a great number of those powers from ranged. 

Spreading out the loveRanged rogues have great natural access to a variety of multi or area strike powers. While popular opinion dictates that rogues should only focus on one target a time, the fact is a ranged rogue are not sacrificing their single target killing and are only adding area damage as a bonus!  

Survivability. Most people never consider this as a Rogue, in deed most Rogue players simply accept the fact that they will take damage, and be a healing sponge for any party healer. In return, they are one of the most useful classes in the game for any party. Fair trade off, right? Well a ranged rogue can perform a similar role and (when properly played) significantly limit any exposure to damage they should be receiving (by either not being a target or being a very inconvenient target for enemies).  

Damage. Even by rogue standards, you deal the pain. While melee abilities generally deal more weapon dice, your ranged attacks are no slouch. Add in the fact you are rolling d10's t many melee rogues d4's and d6's, and things start looking good. With the ability to stack on a number of static modifiers, properly built ranged rogues will keep up to their melee counter parts.

Precision. Sniper rogues (depending on their build) can maintain a very easy source of combat advantage per round. Coupled with sharp shooter talent and very long 'short' ranges on their weapons, Sniper Rogues are not only immensely accurate but they can deliver the pain where it needs to be delivered. This allows a rogue to handily take care of enemy controllers and leaders while their melee cousins are sometimes compromised by close range threats. A superior crossbow rogue on average has a 10%-5% higher chance per die roll to hit a target vs your standard bow/great bow ranger (depending somewhat on your weapon choice). 

I use the following system on powers, feats, races and just about everything

Red - Poor power choice, bottom of the barrel. No reason to pick this over something else.
Purple - Not completely useless, but you can do better. 
Black - An average power. There are no flaws to it, but noting to write home to mother about.
Blue - A good pick! Strong, but nothing that will define your character.
Sky Blue - A very strong pick, one that will help define your character. 
Gold - Absolutely amazing powers that make you what you are. You are probably hurting your charting if you do not take this power. 



A quick overview of the Rogue Class from the Snipers Point of View:


Hit Points: Blue? You have to be kidding me right? Its the same as every other Striker just about, so why blue?Well remember that this is relative. A sniper rogue defenses mean they have (on average) less damage coming in. In that respect as a striker, your similar hp means lot more long term. 

Healing Surges: Nothing out of the ordinary here. While you should not be using many healing surges, you have them for a rainy day. Your relatively small surge value isnt ideal, so pray on your defenses to keep you healthy.

Defense Bonus: Since we stay far away and have cover, reflex attacks are (aside from AC) are the primary stat enemies will be targeting. Sure ranged fortitude and will attacks exist, but they are not as common as the reflex counter part. That being said, many of our save defenses are based along what build and stats you are building with your sniper rogue. Generally a Darkstrider Wisdom Rogue or a Brutal Scoundrel Rogue will sport the best defenses against monsters. Intelligencebased rogues will suffer.

Proficiencies
Armor: Almost the very bottom of the barrel, we only look down on Wizards as far as armor proficiencies go (anyone else in cloth tends to sport some trick to boost their AC and mitigate the choice). Repairable with some feats, but every feat spent on defense generally costs us some utility or damage dealing benefit.

Weapons: For a weapon based striker class, our proficiencies are horrible. We get access to a hand full of weapons and thats it? Now, all things are relative, and rogues make fantastic uses of these weapons, but unless you go the thrown dagger route, weapon based feats are more or less mandatory.


Rogue Talent

Rogue Weapon Talent: For a dagger focused Sniper, the +1 to hit is valuable. Generally given the poor nature of shurikens however, its will limit most of your career to your deadly knife friends. If you choose to use a bow instead of a crossbow, this might be your pick for flexibility reasons. 

Sharpshooter Talent: For the majority of Sniper Rogues, this is it. A +1 bonus to Crossbows is immense and remains the popular choice. Sling users also benefit from this. 


Rogue Tactics
 
Artful Dodger: You spend most of your life at ranged, so bonuses vs OA arnt useful. Sliding enemies can assist the party, but your feat support are generally focused at close range users. Still its a viable way to do our job but far from ideal.

Brutal Scoundrel: Strangely this makes for a good ranged rogue! A number of brutal scoundrel based powers are usable from ranged, and the feat support for Brutal makes it a competitive choice in Epic. However in general play the inability to sustain combat advantage from ranged can cause issues. Unless your party has a lot of melee whom are working with you to ensure ranged CA via Distant Advantage you will loose damage out to our next option...

Cunning Sneak: With bad feat support, few powers that use the tactic or give it much additional benefit, why is this sky blue. Simple: Easy and Repeatable method of sustaining ranged CA. Until level 16 where you receive Hide in Plain Sight this is very important. Any round without CA means the loss of our striker mechanic, so between the superior damage of other tactics and Cunning Sneak, you will end up with more damage as a cunning sneak. We can pray in the future that Cunning Sneak receives more feat support, especially to make Intelligence worth while. If that is the case it might deserve a gold star.

Ruthless Ruffian:  
 Where to begin? Or not rather. Very few ranged powers and the stat support rarely stays in line with a Sniper Rogues desires. Feat support is so so. This is primarily a melee rogue Tactic, and even melee rogues hold their noses up to it. No reason to consider this at this time. 
Skills

In 3.5 you were a skill monkey. In 4th, its no different. You get tons of skills, and your part will expect you to use them. That being said, some powers are not AS useful as your melee counter parts, so lets go through them. 

Trainable Skills



Acrobatics
- Melee Rogues would choke on their tea and crumpets seeing a mere blue here, but its true. For the Sniper Rogue, mobility is not a huge issue. Once we set up shop, we generally will hold our concealed positions for a combat. That said acrobatics is not without its uses, the powers it unlocks can help us get out of a jam when an enemy does slip past our defenders and gets to us (or the DM is being mean and has something come from behind!). 

Athletics - Not terribly useful. If you are primarily adventuring above ground however, and your DM is good about natural terrain you can use this to shimmy up some interesting snipers nests. 

Bluff - Even if Charisma is not a key skill, the RP uses for this skill as a rogue are simply immense. Unfortunately not much by the way of useful skill utilities in Bluff, but lying is never a bad thing!

Dungeoneering - Your usefulness here may vary based on the DM. Does not open much in the way of options. If you go the Dark Strider route, be aware this is REQUIRED.

Insight - Uses may vary on this based on your DM, an important skill to have regardless though. However bare in mind many other classes have access to Insight, so you may wish to point your training elsewhere and have your leader be the resident lie detector. 

Intimidate - A decent skill to have, and is required if you want to take some rattling powers. In general I suggest this if only to have access to some handy debuffs.

Perception - Your the scout (in general, more so if your going towards the Dark Strider PP). There is no reason to have this. With your amazing stealth scores (more so if your Cunning Sneak!) you will be sent up to check this out regularly. If your a race that only needs to Trance, congratulations, your the ultimate party security tool.

Stealth - So good you might even consider taking Skill Focus in this? Yes skill focus. I said it. Then again an Assassins Cloak or similar is probably a better choice;) 

Streetwise - Most DM's ignore the skill. Even most campaigns do not really reward it. Sad? Yes, but its the truth. 

Thievery - Its pick pocket, open lock and disable device all rolled up into one skill? Hell yes! Not like you could say no anyways though. 

Attributes 


Strength - Some abilities will utilize this, and it effects certain skills. If you are a Brutal Rogue, then this is Blue. Since we do not use melee basic attacks and no ranged feats require strength, in general the usefulness of it is diminished. 

Constitution - Why? One word. Steady Shooter. Ok so thats two words; sue me. The Con helps our weak Fort Defense, and translates into an incredibly efficient damage bonus for us once we hit Paragon. I recommend starting this at 13 without racial modifiers, or 14 with. Your goal is to get this to 15 once you hit Paragon to pick up the aforementioned feat. 

Dexterity - Duh? If your a Cunning Sneak, this is even more important since you do not really utilize any core secondary attributes. If you are not a cunning sneak, then it might be advisable to get to 18/18 (between dex and your secondary stat) post racial modifiers.  

Intelligence - It has uses, but they are limited. In general, having a bonus isnt bad, but its nothing you should be investing points into. Even for Cunning Rogues, the usefulness of intelligence is few and far between and generally hard to warrant the points. That said this may change with future support. 

Wisdom - For most rogues, this is only useful for your normal scouting job. For rogues going down the Dark Strider paragon path, this is insanely good. 

Charisma - A general good stat for the groups con artist and face. Also a number of attacks work off charisma without requiring a specific rogue tactic (example: Tornado Strike). For Artful Dodges this is of course amazing. 




Races

 

Races


Player's Handbook

Dragonborn - We shouldnt be getting hit a lot, so our +1 while bloodied is wasted. We loose a dex bonus, we get bonuses in two secondary stats for two different builds. Minor action breath is serviceable. For a melee rogue we have some saving graces, for a Ranged rogue this is one of the worst fits. 

Dwarf - +2 to two secondary statistics make this attractive for some rogues. If you go the Darkstrider route, this is a blue race. The feat support is somewhat lacking and more focused on melee, however it still fairs decently.  

Eladrin - +2 dex/intelligence makes for an interesting but odd combination. Intelligence is so so useful, but the +2 is better placed there than say...charisma. The other extras are yummy, another +1 will. An extra skill on a rogue seems rather overkill however. The teleport is handy ("I teleport to the top of that tree on that sturdy branch and start sniping") but the feat support overall is rather dismal for our role. These still make excellent cunning rogues if you plan to focus on your intelligence as a secondary stat. 

Elf - +2 dex/wisdom make an ideal fit for a Dark Strider (in which case, this race is
sky blue). Elven accuracy can help us land some dailies. Feat support is so so however, which is strange given the iconic nature of an archer elf. A solid pick. 

Half-Elf
 - The stats are fairly out of whack. Dilettante power saves this from joining the Dragonborn. Getting an extra tactic in epic is fairly nifty however and brings this up to blue if you should be playing an epic campaign. 

Halfling -  Sadly for a ranged rogue the halflings does a poor job. With racials and feat support made to survive at melee, it simply does not do a great job. I'm surprised at the lack of sling feat support for Halflings, that seems like a given. If you go a dagger skirmisher route, then Halflings can be quite good!

Human - An extra feat is useful, however the extra at will is kind of a loss. Ranged rogues dont have many choices when it comes to at wills. An extra tactic at epic is tasty though, if your playing that high and can allow for some rather interesting combinations. 

Tiefling - Bad stats in general for what were doing. Encounter power is tough to use. The +1 to hitting bloodied monsters is serviceable and saves this from the dragon borns fate. 

Player's Handbook 2

Deva - Double no? Bad feat support. I tend to not like their racial encounter personally. No reason to play this over say, an Elf? 

Gnome
 - Turning invisible when you take damage is nice, and a free stealth check if you have cover at the start of combat isnt bad..but neither are these good. Sniper Rogues generally have no issues going into stealth on their own. The lack of a +2 dex and feat support makes it a bit weird of a race. Not as good as an Elf or a Human, not as bad as  Tiefling. Black you stay 

Goliath - If I could rate something worse than the Dragon Born I would. Nothing here really works with our Sniper Rogue. 

Half-Orc - The stats are the best a brutal rogue is going to do. An extra 1W per encounter is not bad either. Beyond that, most feat support here is strictly for melee (although there are SOME saving graces here). 

Shifter, Longtooth - No primary stat bonuses. An encounter that requires you get bloodied. Only good feet support are for said encounter power that requires we get bloodied (something almost not in our vocabulary!) 

Shifter, Razorclaw - Dex/Wisdom make this a serviceable sniper rogue, or a Good Dark Strider, however the encounter power requires bloody and in general, the feat support for them is lame. This is strictly inferior to an Elf. 

Player's Handbook 3

Githzerai - For the Sniper Rogue, this is effectively an Elf without the feet support. The Githzerai are great shifty bastards in melee, but most of that is lost in a ranged enviroment. 

Minotaur - No dex bonus. Racial perks to charging, a racial encounter power thats a charge? Feet support all push the melee route. 

Shardmind - No dex bonus. The wisdom bonus here is serviceable for a single PP, but the power and the feat support are all close range. Nothing here helps us do our job, and thats bad. 

Wilden - If you were melee, then pursuit of the hunter would almost be worth it. However in this case, its strictly inferior to the elf (again!). If you go the dagger skirmisher route however, this can be quite nice!

FRPG

Drow  - Personal Bias aside...wow? The +2 charisma makes for a solid artful dodger or dagger skirmisher, but they do just fine in any other build because of their great encounter powers and feet support. Simply put their support is clearly the best. Cloud of Darkness gives us 2 rounds of assured CA (while making us practically impossible to hit!) per encounter. This allows a rogue to get close and use some of their close blasts and keep sneak attacking throughout all of it. The feet support is equally great with Merciless Killer (+5 damage vs bloodied opponents while you have CA. Translates to 2.5 extra damage per hit average) and Ruthless Hunter in Epic if you go the Two Fisted Shooter direction. Dark Fire isnt 'as' good however you can get a feet that lets you use it in addition to cloud of darkness every encounter, which is something extra. This is tempting to make GOLD. Regardless of your build (skirmisher, brutal, artful, darkstrider) this is simply one of the best races to consider.  

Revenant - Great race if your DM allows for it. While it puts you a feat behind in general to pick up your old racial feat, it allows for some nifty stuff. A revenant half elf can get twin strike as an at will (yum). On the Drow Side of things, we moved our +2 Charisma to +2 Con which frees up 3 character creation points to put elsewhere if you are not an artful dodger. 



Weapons

Weapons


Dagger- The dagger has many advantages but some disadvantages; range. It takes two feats to generally get around this; far throw in heroic (to get our short range at least to 7) and retrain that to distant shot at paragon. Daggers give us access to the nimble blade feat (an extra +1 to attack) and subtle weapons (static damage modifiers are good!). The damage however is miserable (2.5 average damage per W dice) and throw support is sketchy (lack of bracers of archery. Dwarven Throwers only compensate in heroic). The main issue keeping the dagger sky blue is that for any sniper rogue, you are battle placement is restricted by the available cover, as such in heroic you will more than likely be suffering long range modifiers often. In Paragon this might not be as common if you run dungeon crawls entirely, however a range of 10 (or 12) is fairly dangerous for this build whom needs cover to function until level 16. The ideal choice of melee rogues whom want to dabble in ranged, however sniper rogues you are not. Go read a different handbook. 


Hand Crossbow - Our Hand Crossbow is generally overlooked, but is a great weapon and can work well with sniper rogues. While it lacks the accuracy and damage of its superior cousin, the Two Fisted Shooter feat can make this shine. Drow will find this more desirable. Infact for a Drow with some expanded crit range, a hand crossbow with Ruthless Hunter can take top dog for damage output on a weapon basis.

Slings - You spend a feat to get a +3/d6 weapon, where as you can spend a feat and get a +3/d10 elsewhere with more range? If you are going to pay feat tax, might as well pay it in a more efficient matter. That being said that are some saving graces to the sling, primarily in the way of some yummy sling only powers. Ideally Wizards will continue throwing out a few sling only powers and maybe more sling only enchantments to make the slinger a more attractive route. At the moment though its hard to justify the cost unless you are a small sized.

Superior Crossbow -  The obvious choice for most sniper rogues. For a single feat tax in paragon (and another in epic for speed loader unless your build lacks any minor action attacks) you net a weapon as accurate as a dagger (remember sharp shooter talent) and dealing d10 damage (thats bastard sword damage honey!) from a range of 20/40! Forget the need for distant shot; if you need distant shot for a superior crossbow, your DM must have a largest battle mat ever (although if thats the case, you have the option). 

Long Bows - Elves, for a feat tax you too can use a special bow! That being hard its not easy to justify it. At +2/d10. The 'feat' tax here simply is not ideal vs a superior crossbow. Should Elves get some more feats related to bow based archery, then this might change. It is a suitable option. If Elven Rogues get more feat support as archers, this may be a prime contender some day. That said for paragon this is a better choice than hand crossbows (+2/d6) unless your a Drow. 

 
 


Heroic Powers



At Will

We are only looking at ranged at wills. If you want to be melee, your in the wrong hand book!

 
At Will Powers


Deft Strike - For a ranged rogue, this is our bread and butter, as ranged rogues from before Cunning Sneak will remember, you can do your job effectively with Deft Strike just fine. Many of our attacks will be from behind full cover (to get us CA) and we use deft strike to get out behind what might be full cover and hit the target. More on this later, but this should definitely be one of your picks. There are situations we do not need Deft Strike however (sufficient basic concealment/cover), in which case Disheartening Strike or Probing Strike becomes our defacto choice. 

Disheartening Strike - A -2 penalty to attack from ranged will make your party happy in general. This is a great power to use if you can attack from hiding without needing the move aspect of deft strike (i.e from behind something providing full COVER).

Gloaming Cut - This can be good if you pump a tiny bit of intelligence, but realistically this is a fail safe at will to get you back into hiding. In general we should be apply to rain Deft Strike of Disheartening Strikes from ranged and never need to use Gloaming Cut, but if you do then this is your option 

Predatory Shot - Whats sad is..this was made for us...but it fails. You already can sustain CA easily. Theres no point in giving up your damage! Thats what makes you a striker! Thats what makes use useful. Makes me sad this was ever printed.

Probing Strike - Wait...what? Blue? Most other guides have this as red. Well thats generally because melee rogues have better options; amongst our options, this is a fine power to use. For our job, this is not bad at all, especially in a nova round. Hit with this to get you a potentially crucial +1 to attack and then pop an AP for your daily (granted, based on your PP and how they use AP, you may want to rearrange that order some!). Most rogues will opt for Disheartening Strike over Probing, but they both have their purpose.  Mind you though its a POWER bonus, so for some builds or item sets this could drop down to black, purple or red fast. 

Sly Flourish - For most Snipers, this power does not have much attractiveness because of their low charisma, however if you are an artful dodger (or a cunning sneak that ignores Wisdom as a secondary stat for Charisma) then say Hello to a mandatory pick. 

 

Level 1: Encounter
For the slinger rogue, skip the rock isnt bad (a potential 1W + dex + dex + daze) although two attack rolls me a bit leery. For the other rogues, its a toss up between Kings Castle (your defender does his job) or Unbalancing Shot (not so much). 

Level 1 Encounter

Distracting Shot (MP 2) - At Will Damage, grants 'one' person CA and you can stay hidden. Since hiding isnt difficult and you have ca, effectively you just spend an encounter power to give a single ally CA? Trash. 

Impact Shot (MP) - Decent damage and a one square push. Not really much to write home about. Primarily used to move a baddy away from a ranged character in the group so they can 'move' away and not shift dance. 

King's Castle (PHB) - The utility here is more or less lost with you. What keeps this blue however is it targets reflex. Some crossbow or sling users will prefer this to the accuracy over unbalancing shot. If your defender seems to be doing a good job locking down monsters, this overtakes unabalancing shot. 

Shadow Strike (MP 2) - At will damage to remain hidden (not an issue for a sniper rogue). Trash. 

Skip the Rock (MP 2) - The choice for a slinger. You slack a primary target for at will damage, then hit another for dex damage + a daze. The fact there are two attacks here keeps this from being sky blue. 

Unbalancing Shot (MP) - Probably the choice for sniper rogues of this level. Deals decent damage and slows the enemy, which your defenders will love (especially non Wardens/Fighters whom generally cant slow themselves or have built in any shift/move powers). 

Other Classes

Ranger
Two-Fanged Strike (PHB) - Two basic attacks and a rider for wisdom. More damaging than anything a rogue has, but without an effect rider (thats generally the deal between our classes though). Granted, if your going Dark Strider this can be a Great choice to swap out a weak encounter power. 



Level 1: Daily 
There is only Blinding Barrage. It is mother and father.

Level 1 Daily


Blinding Barrage (PHB) - Congratulations; regardless of your weapon this is your weapon of choice. 2W and close blast 3 means you'll be doing some respectable damage, and half on miss is not shabby. It is party friendly (always a plus) and it BLINDS till the end of the next turn. The usefulness of this cant be understated. You provide yourself a free turn of CA as well as for your entire party, and inflict -5 penalties to hit on your enemies. Pro. A great way to start a combat when you still have first strike and already have CA. Pops minions to which is always a nifty benefit, but never use it souly for that purpose. Your wizard/sorcerer has at wills for that job. 

Confounding Attack (MP) - Hit a target for encounter power damage and allow him to melee basic an ally. Only thing saving this from a purple is that later item is an effect. 

Easy Target (PHB) - Encounter power damage and it provides combat advantage? Waste. 

Hounding Assault (MP 2) - Wow a benefit to our melee attacks?! O wait...

Scattering Shot (MP 2) - Simply takes to much set up. While its nice you dont loose it if you miss from hiding, you more or less are looking at tight pockets of enemies to make this worth the effort. There are simply better options. 

Trick Strike (PHB) - Better suited for our melee cousins. Sliding a target 1 every time we hit might be useful, but since we arnt trying to get into flanking position not as needed. Meh? 

Other Classes

Ranger
Sure Shot (PHB) - It does good damage, you get to reroll the attack and the damage rolls, that being said, it basically just hits a single target. While the damage is superior than anything we have, the lack of a rider entirely displeases the melee rogue in me. If all you want to do is hit a single target really hard though, go ahead and rate this higher. I think it makes a poor power swap choice. 



Level 2: Utilities
And so begins the bad part of being a sniper rogue; almost all of utilities are built for our melee cousins. That said some can be useful, but in general we hurt for utilities. 


Level 2 utilities

Adaptable Flanker (MP) - Melee Power. Of no/limited use to us. 

Agile Footwork (D 381) - Should something get next to us we can move away into a spot to ideally hide next turn. Not the best power in the world but its serviceable. 

Arm and Edge (MP 2) - The choice for some dagger and sling users. This can make a dagger thrower a bit more tolerable. Crossbow users are advised to stay away. 

Cunning Step (MP 2) - Less than useful. Ranged rogues dont move around much. 

Deadly Knowledge (MP 2) - A conditional method to apply your int damage to attack once an encounter to a single attack? I'm all for more damage but this is a stretch as useful. 

Double Take (MP) - If your DM makes heavy use of hidden creatures in combat, this might be useful. For the rest of us, there are better options. 

Fleeting Ghost (PHB) - For Cunning Rogues or Dagger Skirmishers this is useless. However for other sniper rogues this is extremely important as you will need to move between hiding spots quite often.  

Great Leap (PHB) - A decent 'scout' power you can use all the time outside of general combat. A plausible choice. 

Hop Up (MP) - Chances this will come up are few and far between. 

Lurker's Cloak (MP 2) - For most sniper rogues, this is so so. If your dm however has it out for you (some dm's want to ensure you take some attacks/damage) then this might be more useful. 

Master of Deceit (PHB) - Rerolling a Bluff check can certainly save a social situation or skill challenge, as well as have some marginal combat utility (feints). Not a bad choice for most Rogues.

Quick Fingers (PHB) - While traps in combat are not common, a minor action to thievery will be amazing when it comes up, and allow you to continue to attack while you pick a lock or disable a trap. 

Reap the Rattled (MP) - We can get CA easily on our own. 

Sneak in the Attack (MP) - Sadly, we arnt at melee. I keep this black because in some situations (laying down blinding barrage and other close bursts) we might have a chance to use this. Once we get encounter power close blasts, this can become sky blue. 

Switcheroo (MP 2) - No? 

Tumble (PHB) - Possibly useful, although in our shoes agile footwork is generally better. Again, another power intended for melee rogues 

Other Classes
Ranger

Invigorating Stride - Potentially blue if your going for a dark strider. Overall, nothing much from our ranger buddies to write home about this level but Invigorating Stride is not bad. Move action to shift away a few squares (even if it isnt many) and second wind. Encounter is icing, i mean...at the worst this is a move action second wind with 2 squares of shifting for dark strider rogues.




 Level 3 Encounter  
Simple choices here. If you use a sling, Flattening Shot, if not you take Fleeting Spirit Strike. Overall this is one of the weakest levels for ranged rogues. 

Level 3 Encounter


Enforced Threat (MP)
 - We can generate our own CA thank you

Flattening Shot (MP 2)
 - This is blue only if your going the sling, which should be self explanatory since it requires it. Damage is meh but you get a knock back, a knock down and some rider INT damage (although for most rogues that damage rider might not even exist)
as
Fleeting Spirit Strike (MP 2) - While the damage is mediocre, the shifting and stealthing before and after allows this to be a great ability to reorient yourself if the battle field shifts against you, you loose cover, etc. Nothing to write home about but useful. 

Shadow Steel Roll (MP 2) - At will damage with a int rider? Bad...No reason to take this over fleeting spirit. 

Trickster's Blade (PHB) - See: "You shouldnt be getting attacked much" 101 That said, semi melee artful dodgers might find a better reason to take this

Other Classes
Ranger

Disruptive Strike (PHB) - Effectively its an extra attack regardless of how you look at it. More attacks in an encounter, even at 1W are going to result in more total damage than something flashier. Also gives you a second chance to deal sneak attack if you ended your turn in hiding and had a horrible turn. If your a dark strider, this is quite nice as your wisdom modifier will allow you to prevent the attack (if melee) that triggered it.



Level 5 Dailies

Level 5 Daily

Bloodbath (MP 2) - Lets count the ways this rocks. 1: its accurate, targets a NAD (although not the best NAD). 2. It deals damage on a hit, ongoing damage = to sneak attack and then deals damage AGAIN as an effect. Applying your static modifiers twice is the real win here!  Effectively a multi strike power and at bar minimum will deal your sneak attack damage twice (maybe more). Just good through and through. 

Go for the Eyes (MP 2) - Another good power. For one its reliable when your hidden and blinds the target. The after effect will pleaseyour defender. If you tend to fight a lot of solos, then this power easily becomes Sky Blue and becomes the obvious choice this level. 

Hobble (MP 2) - Um...kinda good? Targets being prone make them harder for you to hit. It could appease your party but between the meh damage and the meh side effect this is...meh.

Lurker's Assault (MP 2) - Effectively the same as our level 3 encounter powers. 

Staggering Assault (MP) - Does good damage with a correct setup and the effect after could be good, but again, this comes down to how often your fighting creatures where applying slows repeatedly will matter. Also depends how well your defender is doing his job. As such this can be highly based on the party. With the correct group this might make difficult fights somewhat trivial, but not reliably so ergo the black

Walking Wounded (PHB) - Accurate power that knocks them over, and then has a power that limits their movement unless they want to fall over again? More applicable than staggering assault. 

Other Classes
Ranger
Flying Steel (D 383) - Unfortunately this works out far better for rangers (whom generally are more mobile and closer to the action than us). Given our limited spots to fire on in combat, a single monster should be able to nab some cover with any amount of intelligence. 

Spitting Cobra Stance (MP) - Similarly, sniper rogues arnt close so this is trash. However if your a dagger thrower/skirmisher, say hello to mandatory! In the right encounter your easily getting an extra attack a round while using this. 
 

Level 6 Utilities

Level 6 Utilities

Blind Spot Advantage (MP 2) - Keep in mind, its just 'concealment' not 'full concealment'. That means for most rogues you get a once an encounter -2 to being hit. Woot? For Cunning Rogues though this can be very nice allowing you 2 free rounds of stealth from ANYWHERE, which is nifty! 

Chameleon (PHB) - Generally we stay far away, so few creatures will come hunting after us. If your dm is hell bent on attacking you by all means consider this mandatory, but for most sniper rogues its not all that important. 

Ferret Out Frailty (MP) - Not as good as Blind Spot Advantage, since it only lats to the beginning of your next turn UNLESS you use a rattling power (generally some of our worst options). That being said it doesnt require you to move

Fortuitous Dodge (MP) - A daily power reliant on creatures being close to you? Bad. 

Ignoble Escape (PHB) - A shifty move power that negates marks. More useful for our melee cousins. 

Mob Mentality (PHB) - Even as far as a scout/rp power, i feel underwhelmed. 

Nimble Climb (PHB) - Another scout power, not trash but hardly fufills our role. If most of your campaign is in a forest (who knows?) then consider it. Sniping from trees is comical and effective 

Perfect Feint (MP 2) - Ca is easy to get, and this requires us be close. Double bad for snipers. 

Sidestep Stance (MP) - Even if we wanted to use this, it requires us be within 5 squares to choose the enemy. This might be more useful for dagger throwers.

Slippery Mind (PHB) - Encounter +2 to will? Not shabby. 

Swift Parry (D 381) - Stat placement is unlikely, but if your a dagger throwing artful dodger, then this is likely amazing for you.  

Threatening Glare (MP) - For a build that is not attacked often, we are even less concerned with OA's. 

Ugly Finish (MP 2) - The close burst 5 is what kills this otherwise decent utility. 

Vault Position (MP) - A daily boost to a single nad, its a stance, and lets you jump as a minor kinda sorta. Meh is an understatement. 

Vexing Flanker (MP) - Another melee effect. This can be useful in the first rounds when your dropping your close blasts however, so its not without positives. 
 

Level 7 Encounter
Cloud of Steel is the obvious choice this level. More listed beneath that listing. If you tend to fight a lot of solos or elites however you may find more use out of Snap Shot's Nova capabilities. No ranger powers listed this level. Spikes of the Manticore or Bitting Volley really dont compare to Cloud of Steel. 

Level 7 Encounter

Cloud of Steel (PHB)- I will break from some some conventional forum rogue logic here. Blasts and bursts? Amazing. They hit many enemies, do loads of damage, pop minions (which effectively is saving someone else in the party a round fighting them). Controllers are not as common as strikers, many parties wont have a dedicated controller. Even when you have one, they arnt always ideal aoe controllers. With a dagger/handxbow or handxbow/handxbow build, this gives us MANY chances to trigger Two Fisted Shooter. With a super crossbow you simply deal loads of total damage. WIth it being a blast 5 its not much of a stretch to hit 3...4..5 etc creatures. Like all rogue blasts and bursts, its party friendly to boot. 



From the Shadows
 (MP) - Really? A level 7 power that you can compare to fleeting spirit strike (which in itself is not that great of a power). Horrible. 

Hectoring Strike (MP) - CA is easy for us to get. For a dagger throwing brutal scoundrel this might not be terrible, but I find myself hard to justify the pick. 

Killer's Ambush (MP 2) - It hits a single target and lets us return to stealth land. Not bad. 

Painful Shot (MP 2)
 - Compare this to Killer's Ambush and ask yourself why you want it? The limitation to slings makes this odd. I would expect something so limited to be better. 

Snap Shot (MP) - Weak damage but its a minor action. Effectively an extra attack every round. Its great to blow up on a single target. 

 

Level 9 Dailies

Ranger Powers at this level are so so. Spray of Arrows is a poor mans Burst Fire. Attacks on the Run however is nice and situationally will be the attack of choice(see Attacks on the run for more information).  

Level 9 Dailies


Agonizing Shot (MP) - The dismal damage on this power cannot be made up for by its rider. Steer clear. 

Bewildering Assault (MP 2) - Despite it screaming 'sniper', I'm not a big fan of the power. It can be used to set up a fairly impressive party nova on a single target, which is a redeeming quality. 

Burst Fire (MP)
 - Burst 1 in range, targets only enemies (so you can lay this down on your tank safely) targets reflex (very accurate), deals decent damage (compare it to most other dailies of this level). Like many of our bursts/blasts, your trading riders for lots of damage across multiple targets. 

Not It (MP) - This might be plausible for an encounter power, not a daily. One more weapon damage dice than burst fire, rider that is situationally useful (unless your defender is bullocks). 

Swift Strike (MP) - Lot's of single target damage, but lacks anything else. 

Raining Death (MP 2)
 - Range 5? Potentially possible to pull this off , but with all the hoops you are jumping through I doubt its worth it. 

Rogue's Recovery (MP) - I rather like this power in general. While in itself its not bad, getting an extra Cloud of Steel can be good. Its worth will vary based on what you pick for your PP and its encounter power. A cloaked sniper might find this more useful than a dark strider for instance (especially in a nova. Sudden Bolt/Rogues Recovery/Sudden Bolt while not the most amazing single target nova, is going to be painful!).

Vexing Sting (MP) - Accurate and has an ok rider. I prefer it over say, Not It. 

Other Classes
Ranger

Attacks on the Run (PHB) - 3W+ modifiers twice on a target. Compared to Burst Fire, its two attacks (burst fire at the right time could easily hit 4+ mobs. Just wait for your defender to round them up) and is vs AC instead of Reflex. However being able to put 2 attacks into a single tough target is going to sometimes going to be a better option. If you fight elites/solos often, this is worth considering. 


Level 10 Utilities
rawr rawr
Level 10 Utilities

Brisk Stride (MP) - A nice mobility power that ranged rogues wont get much use out of. 

Certain Freedom (PHB) - Beyond the conditions being rare for our ranged roles, the daily use for something we can do well enough on our own seems silly. 

Close Quarters (PHB) - Skirmishers might have a reason to pick this; if you are a skirmisher, rate this blade. For everyone else, look elsewhere. 

Combat Tumbleset (MP) - A fairly good method to re-establish your positioning if something goes wrong. While movement abilities are not our ideal, being an encounter power this one is fairly attractive. 

Dangerous Theft (PHB) - Even for our scout role, this seems a waste of a utility pick. 

Daring Gamble (MP 2) - Skirmishers might have a better use for this. For pure Snipers, its effectiveness is moot. 

Deadly Sacrifice (MP 2) - The chances this comes up are really too limited to consider. 

Executioner's Mien (MP) - This requires intimidate. If you have that then Congrats! You have become a ranged debuffer for the combat. This might not sound great, but it is. Between your ability to target any foe on the battle field and your various multi strike powers, you will be handing out -2's left and right. 

Gap in the Armor (MP) - Despite the short range, this can be used effectively in the start of a combat after you lay down your close bursts. However given the relatively short time frame in a fight we stay within 5, we do not have much time to determine WHICH enemy to apply this to. That being said if your DM loves throwing solos at you, rate this higher. 

Peripheral Concealment (MP) - Trash. If this was a stance I could see the point, but a daily for a turn? Really? 

Shadow Stride (PHB) - Hiding is important, and if you are not a cunning sneak, this becomes a great boon to your ability to move about hidden. Cunning Sneaks avoid this given they do not need full cover/concealment. 

Sneaky Roll (D 375) - A reaction to being hit by a melee attack? Should not be happening enough to make this worth it. 

Other Classes
Ranger
Defensive Volley - For one, its not an attack, so we can stay in stealth. We can use it every encounter, and help our squishies and defenders out when they need it. Sounds pretty great. If you already had a utility power swap feat, I would suggest looking into this. 





Paragon Powers

Level 13 Encounter
Options are this level are less than ideal. Sling users however have a potent Numbing Shot, where as most other ranged rogues will be torn between Powerful Shot (Solo/Elite heavy games) and Tornado Strike (better for generic combat). 

Level 13 Encounter

Bounding Escape (MP) - Hey look..it does 2W damage and you get to move? Wait....were ranged. 

Flitting Demise (MP 2) - Basically hits hard and lets us re-stealth. Nothing to write home about. 

Numbing Shot (MP 2) - Sling users, welcome to your pick. It targets fort and has two rider effects. Great!

Powerful Shot (MP) - Good Damage (better than numbing shot) with two riders of its own, although they are not AS good (push + slow). 

Skip Shot (MP) - A 2W hit that lets you pop a minion? Seems hardly worth an encounter power. 

Tornado Strike (PHB) - You strike two targets, and even if you dumped charisma, you slide both into a better position for your team. You then get a move of 3 squares (which hey, is what you need as a cunning sneak to hide. I'm sketchy if you can hide as part of this move although I believe you can). Tornado Strike is the 'damage' power of this level, Powerful Shot is the 'controlly' power of this level. 

Veiled Missile (MP 2) - Effectively a more accurate powerful shot minus the riders. If your going for a single target attack, it should be due to the riders. All ranged rogues can restealth, and cunnin rogues barely need to try, so the effectiveness here is questionable. 

Wicked Reminder (MP 2) - Weak damage and the side effect is situationally useful. If you are in a weapon focused party and went the brutal scoundrel route, this can setup a great nova round for the team; for those rare rogue/party compositions, consider this blue. 

Other Classes
Ranger
Pinning Strike - While it deals less damage than tornado strike, the rider here is a turn of immobilization. If you dump charisma, this might be more attractive than a single slide. 

 
 

Level 15 Daily
A sad level for ranged rogues. This is the worst level for us, and looking at other classes is almost mandatory. If you must stay in class, consider Courage Breaker, otherwise if you multi classes into ranger, Confounding Arrows is an utterly AMAZING power!

Level 15 Daily

Arterial Slice (MP 2) - Single target, and while accurate, a bit lack luster. I'm not a fan of save ends on damage unless it comes with other yummy riders. 

Courage Breaker (MP 2) - Hits hard, reliable, gives riders and rattling built in. That said, I still find it lack luster. A slow rider is simply nothing to write home about. 

Mind-Boggling Onslaught (MP) - Weak damage for a sustainable penalty?

Slaying Strike (PHB) - High crit and high damage, but lack of any riders what so ever is depressing. If were going to strike a single target, there should be some side effect bite to the power. More appealing to brutal rogues since they add a second stat to it, but not enough to make it ideal. 

Vicious Slash (MP 2) - Damage and debuff save effects. Again, underwhelming for the level. 

Wounding Strike (MP) - Damage and a very weak rider. Not sure why you would want to pick this. 

Other Classes
Ranger
Confounding Arrows - It gives us 3 attacks at 1W + dex each. If you hit a target once you get a daze save ends(nice). Hit it twice for a stun save ends (WOW!) and hit it three times for an extra 2W of damage. So lets see, 5W and applying our damage mods 3 times + a stun save ends on a single target, or spread out the love for multi dazing if the situation warrants it. A great pick for power swapping. 

  

Level 16 Utilities
This level is a story of juxtopposition. I do not think I have rated so many powers red, but at the same time you have some yummy options! Leaping Dodge, Raise the Stakes and Shadow Master (none Cunning Sneaks only) are great choices. Of course this is also the level with our only mandatory utility for all cunning sneaks; Hide In Plain Sight. Yes, your sniper will NOT be as good without this power, even for cunning sneaks whom actually gain the least benefit from it. 

Level 16 utilities

Clever Move (MP 2) - What kills this is its an immediate reaction vs an immediate interrupt. If something blasts you out of hiding, you can re stealth. So so. 

Defensive Roll (MP) - For the standard sniper rogue, this is questionable at best. We dont move much, we arnt attacked much. For your skirmisher, this is a bit better.

Denying Stance (MP) - A stance that only procs when your missed? As far as dailies go this is a poor poor choice. Again, skirmishers will find a bit more use here.

Dishonorable Tactics (MP 2) - This would have been great at say, level 6. At level 16 its not even acceptable. 

Foil the Lock (PHB) - A daily only power to open a lock fast and good? Again, this would have been acceptable 10 levels earlier, not at this point though. 

Grasshopper Leap (MP) - As far as scout powers go this isnt bad. Encounter and teamed with some jumping powers you can move around quite a bit. Not good, Not bad. Middle of the road power. 

Hide in Plain Sight (PHB) - Guess what? Regardless of what kind of Ranged Rogue you are, easy sauce ca is imperative. Being able to effectively set up your own snipers nest anywhere on the board makes the rest of your career that much easier...and its ENCOUNTER to boot. This benefits cunning rogues the least (although I still rate it as mandatory). Brutal Rogues and Skirmishers, say hello to enjoying what cunning rogues have enjoyed for the past 15 levels with some skill checks! This being said, you still will have a few rare creatures that wont be effected, but they are few and far between. 

Leaping Dodge (PHB) - Hey look, what Clever Move should have been!

Magpie Filch (MP) - A daily for a skill auto success? In all the time I have played a rogue since 4th edition, I can maybe count the times this would have helped on one finger.

Opportunistic Relocation (MP) - This may have been ok at level 6, but again...10 levels later i expect better. 

Raise the Stakes (PHB) - Good power, infact its very good. You might consider swapping a higher level power for this, especially if you are a two fisted shooter and about to unload a large area attack. 

Shadow Master (MP 2) - You gain the Cunning Sneak Advantage for 2 rounds every encounter; not shabby. Of course if you are a Cunning Sneak then this is obviously bad.

Trap Master (MP 2) - Traps show up in encounters pretty rarely. Do not pick powers around this that happen rarely. 

Vigilant Footwork (MP) - A daily stance for +1 ac/ref against melee attacks and it requires a specific weapon? At level 16? Yikes. 

 

Level 17 Encounter
For many rogues this might be a difficult choice. For skirmishers, Excruciating Reminder (Brutal) and Hounding Strike (artful) are great choices. For Cunning Sneaks, Surprising Assault carries a nasty stun and good damage! All ranged rogues might be tempted to take the Rangers pounding assault as well at this level. 

Level 17 Encounter

Dazing Shot (MP 2) - A ranged dazing strike? 1 more W than its level 1 encounter counterpart? The cunning sneak rider can make it a bit more palatable , but its really a poor choice given its sling only. 

Dragon Tail Strike (PHB) - Solid hit with a side effect that will rarely come up. That being said if you are a skirmisher and something seems on you, this is much more useful

Excruciating Reminder (MP 2) - Solid damage and a rattling debuff. For snipers, the trigger here for an extra attack seems more likely than from Dragon Tail Strike. For skirmishers, this is probably not as good.

Guerrilla Blitz (MP) - A hit that gives us a free reposition and some bonus AC. Brutal Scoundrel Skirmishers might find this more attractive, for the rest of the ranged rogues this does not help our job enough. 

Hounding Strike (PHB) - Hard hit. Targets Will. Ensures another Round of CA, and a yummy rider for artful dodgers. If you are an artful dodger skirmishers, congrats. Even brutal skirmishers should consider this. 


No Escape
 (MP)
 - This power is for our melee cousins, not us. 

Surprising Assault (MP 2) - Oh look, its dazing shot again. That is unless you are a cunning sneak, then suddenly this is 'stunning assault'. 

Unerring Shot (MP 2) - Um...um.......so its a hit with no rider that is 'reliable' if you are hidden. It doesnt even deal that much damage. Wheres the beef? 

Other Classes
Ranger

Pounding Barrage (MP) - Yum! Three attacks, so three chances to stack multipliers, so its already doing good damage. If you hit twice, you get a silly d6 more damage (woo?) if you hit all three times, you get a immobilize effect. Sure the riders are not consistent, but the damage is fantastic! Good example of rangers damage powers combined with the rogues accuracy for a yummy result. Cunning sneaks will have a hard choice here, since they can get a stun this level, although a probably used immobilize is quite nice to. 



Level 19 Dailies

Say it with me; Daunting Barrage. Thats not to say this is the only pick at this level; artful dodgers will love Feinting Flurry for its ability to trash a Solo and make it trivial (if you also have a tact warlord in your party, you may has well just only report to him if you crit fail a roll. Marked Beating is good for non Artful Dodgers. However for pure damage dealing and mass status effect imposing, its Daunting Barrage. 

Level 19 Dailies

Daunting Barrage (MP) - Big blast, enemies only and daze (save ends). You can effectively daze the entire offense in a single daily while crit fishing and dealing significant total damage. Yum! This combines your control and damage aspects all in one nice power. For some giggles, they also impose a rattling debuff. 

Demoralizing Shot (MP 2) - So so damage and grants your party CA in a wider area. This might have some uses but I'm hard pressed to see them. 

Feinting Flurry (PHB)
 - Hits will, hits hard, but only hits a single target. For most sniper rogues, this deals a mild side effect, for artful dodgers, say hello to a reverse Lead the Attack (warlord).

Maiming Strike (MP 2) - So so damage with lots of riders. In general though i find myself hard pressed to like this. Seems like an anti skirmisher power, and they dont tend to take many shots before they die. 

Marked Beating (MP) - Decent damage with much better riders than maiming strike. 

Snake's Retreat (PHB) - As the rider procs off us being attacked, this naturally just doesnt seem that great. For a skirmisher whom is being beat upon however, this might have more use, but in general its fairly lack luster. 

Uncanny Ricochet (MP) -Two chances to 'meh' damage to a single target? No riders? Trash. 
 
Epic Powers

Level 22 Utilities
A good number of choices at this level. Hide from the Light is a great backup to Hide in Plain Sight. Thief of Fortune is a fantastic clutch power for ensuring a strategic hit. Rogues going the Darkstrider route will want to consider the Ranger Power Master of the Hunt to add yet another static modifier to all of their attacks. 

Level 22 Utilities

Clinging Shadows (MP 2)
 - As far as powers go its respectable for non Cunning Rogues. For Cunning, look elsewhere. 

Cloud Jump (PHB) - Without the caveat of this being a running jump, this actually is not that impressive. Look elsewhere for your mobility. 

Dazzling  Acrobatics (PHB) - Move lots for a move action. Since most enemies cant attack you while you shift, the defense perk is not that valuable. 

Hide from the Light (PHB) -  A second hide in plain sight with limitations. Stupendous after you have used up your powers and have been removed from hide in plain sight. If your DM seems intent on attacking you lots while invisible, raise this to sky blue. 

Indomitable  Agility (MP 2) - Nice for skirmishers. Other rogues should consider it, even if it comes up less often. At some point you'll be stunned or worse and this is handy to have. 

Killer's  Instinct (MP 2) - No ranged rogue wants this, not even skirmishers given the caveat of ending adjacent to the foe. 

Mountebank's Flight (MP) - With the trigger as specific as it is, coupled with the triggers range, this goes into our 'not useful' folder. Even skirmisher rogues best look elsewhere. 

Scoundrel's  Epiphany (MP) - Another scout power and a daily. Again, chances you will ever need this are few and far between. 

Seize the Moment (MP) - Ensures you go first even off a bad initiative roll (keeping your first strike) and lets you nova pretty well on the opening round. Not shabby. 

Somersault Dodge (MP 2) - A decent power for our melee cousins, and skirmishers might find a reason for it, but the logic behind picking this seems pretty weak for most ranged rogues. 

Thief of  Fortune (MP) - A nifty power, helping ensure you land a critical big hit sometime throughout the day. Not shabby. 

Uncanny  Aim (MP 2) - For most ranged rogues, this is not that great. For dagger skirmishers, this is amazing allowing them to finally join crossbow users in the back lines.  

Unnerving Footwork (MP) -  Effects that require they be adjacent=bad bad bad. 

Wall Crawl (MP) - There may be instances this can be useful, but I'm hard pressed to think of them. If your DM loves using LOTS of environment, you might consider this. Nothing like getting your own sniping perch. 

Other Classes
Ranger

Master of the Hunt
 (PHB)
 - For most Rogues, this isnt good. For darkstriders, this is utterly amazing! For once a day you attacks are weapon + static modifiers + dex + (3+wisdom + wisdom) modifier. Insane;) 



Level 23 Encounter
A tough choice at this level between
Crack Shot and Steel Entrapment. Both powers are great although most ranged rogues will find themselves leaning towards the later cause of its larger size while keeping the same damage ouput. Both powers are so good you may likely come back and pick the other for your level 27 power. Rogues facing of against heavy amounts of Solo's might consider the Ranger power Manticores Volley instead.  

Level 23 Encounter

Blindside (MP) - Decent single target damage dazing strike. The condition for this is easy for ranged rogues, but as a level 23 encounter pretty weak. .

Crack  Shot (MP) - Area burst in range, hits for solid damage for an area of effect, and knocks down the target. Yummy! 

Dazing Double Shot (MP 2) - An improved tornado strike that dazes two targets. Not shabby. 

Fell the Strong (MP 2) - Bad damage for single target with poor riders overall. 

Fettering Shot (MP) - Decent single target damage with a decent one round rider, but compared to steel entrapment, I dont see the reason to take this. 

Knave's Gambit (PHB) - An attack the begets another attack. The damage is decent. A better pick for artful dodges but it might be hard to justify this over something else this level like crack shot. 

Steel Entrapment (PHB) - Hits a huge area(blast 5), it attacks a NAD, it deals good damage and it has a good rider (immobilization). 

Other Classes
Ranger

Manticore's Volley (PHB) - As far as single target damage output, this is the king. It can strike a target for 3 applications of your modifiers and 5W total. That being said it does not touch the total damage output of steel entrapment or the area side effect of crack shot. If you fight a lot of elites/solos, this might be a good pick. 
 

Level 25 Daily
A poor level for choices for ranged rogues. The primary choice would be Rogue's Resurgence as it allows us to take on a nuking role (8W damage!) or gain another encounter (great for situations where you want another AOE!). No obvious multi class picks this level. Artful Dodgers might consider going back to level 19 and picking up
feinting flurry if they did not, as it gives amazing penalties. 
Level 25 Daily

Biting Assault (PHB) - Low damage but accurate with an ok rider. Bit weak overall. 

Bounding Assault (MP 2)
 - An accurate hit from ranged for large damage, but no riders. This can be serviceable. However its worse than Magnetic shot for ranged rogued, although the difference is not significant. 

Hamstring (PHB) - Better damage than biting assault but the rider is arguably worse. Meh. 

Magnetic Shot (MP) - Slightly better than bounding assault as it adds in 2 other modifiers. For Brutal Rogues this is likely a decent choice. 

Perfect Shot (MP 2) - Rogues are accurate, so you have no reason taking a power that sacrifices damage for accuracy to THIS level. Look elsewhere.

Ricocheting Strike (MP 2)
 - Decent hit against the primary target and you get to deal sneak attack twice which can be great. Enemies needing to be adjacent however limits general field use and makes it not a good choice, but run of the mill. 

Rogue's Resurgence (MP) - A versatile power that has many uses. Can be used in a multi strike fight for an extra an extra steel entrapment, or used to nuke a single target a target. By no means the best power in the world, but it can be situationally fantastic. 
 


Level 27 Encounter
I would suggest most ranged rogues go back to level 23 and pick Crack Shot or Steel Entrapment (whichever one you did not pick). If you really want something from this level, it is a toss up between Killers's Gift or Perfect Strike (although I prefer the later). 

Level 27 Encounter

From Pebble to Boulder (MP 2) - Sling Only however it is accurate, stuns, knocks down. Weak damage but thats forgivable. 



Killer's Gift (MP 2) - A more general attack than Pebble to Boulder. You loose the knock down for a slide. 

Perfect Sniper (MP 2) - While it hits hard, it lacks any real draw to pick this power. The only perk is staying in stealth, generally not an issue for us.

Perfect Strike (PHB)
 - Chances are if you hit with this power, you have stunned them and delt 5W damage. Effectively you trade the slide of killers gift for 3W damage, which depending on the situation can be good or bad. If forces to pick, i think Perfect Strike is the better of the two. 

Safe Bet (MP)
 - Effective you hit the target twice, which is not shabby on the damage route. The lack of a rider limits this however. 

Stunning Assist (MP)
 - Slightly more damage than killers gift without the slide, so why wouldnt you just pick perfect strike? 

Stupefying Violence (MP)
 - Single target tornado strike with a TINGE more damage? Nah.
 

Level 29 Daily
If your a dagger skirmisher, slinger, hand crossbow or superior crossbow user, you will stare at Killing Storm and drool. It might require a re read to really get why this power is so amazing. There is some competition this level however; Cagey Killer is a great debuff power. If you want pure single target damage, Assassin's Point might be your pick; however if you really want single target damage, you will want to look into the Rangers Five-Missile Dance, as it is far better.

Level 29 Daily

Assassin's Point (PHB) - We cant abuse this with knock out, so for its simply alot of single target damage and no riders. Not shabby. 

Cagey Killer (MP) - So So damage, but a nice save ends stun with a save ends daze after effect make this one of the better debuff powers this level. 

Immobilizing Strike (PHB) - This can be situationally great, although I'm not sure I would choose it for my level 29. It is a accurate and hits hard, and keeps the target still with a nice penalty. The rider while hard to save against, isnt the best rider. I'm torn to rate this higher but err on the side of black. 

Killing Storm (MP 2) - Hits a huge area (area burst 2=25 total squares effected), deals good damage, miss half, and if you do hit, the the creatures move, netting your entire party oppurtunity attacks galore. The save end CA to the party is simply icing at this point. If you cant imagine why this power is so good, imagine 2-3 rounds into a combat when your defender and your melee are in a giant pile with your enemies (which happens what...every encounter practically?). Between the main effect and the oodles of OA's it will provoke, you can turn a challenging encounter into a yawn. 

Moving Target (PHB) - Due to our ranged nature, and not being attacked frequently this simply is not an ideal power for us. 

Sight-Stealing Shot (MP) - Simply a worse choice than the stun of cagey killer. If you are looking for debuffs, this is not your choice.

Treachery's Reward (MP 2) - An accurate attack that does slightly more damage than a level 27 encounter power? Bad choice.

Other Classes
Ranger
Five-Missile Dance (MP) - You hit a single target 5 times and apply some riders or spread the love. Can be better than Killing Storm in certain situations. 


Feats

Class Feats


Heroic Tier:



Backstabber (PHB)
 - Your bread and butter got better. This generally results in 2 extra damage per sneak attack at heroic and scales up to 5 extra damage. When everything is said and done thats a lot of damage. The benefits are even higher with whirling sneak attack at higher levels.

Brutal Wound (MP) - Not a bad power. Ranged attacks for rogues generally dont have as much ongoing damage as melee rogues, so uses of this power might seem limited. 

Deadeye Slinger (MP 2) - No question if your going the slinging route you need this. For all other ranged rogues, look elsewhere. 

Duelist's Panache (D 381) - A decent feat for artful dodgers, but since we spend most of our times in the back lines our chances to roll athletics/acrobatics generally are mixed. If you find yourself rolling lots of these checks and are charisma heavy, then reconsider. 

Flash of the Blade (D 381) - Why is this included? If your are using the Drow Fighting Style, and are otherwise a 'melee' hand crossbow user (hey, they exist!) then this is a fantastic pick up. For all other sniper rogues (actual SNIPER rogues) look elsewhere. 

Improved Cunning Sneak (MP 2) - This can be useful for cunning sneaks, allowing them to not need to move as much to be able to return to sneak. It allows for a deft strike/move combo a bit more easily. 

Martial Adaptation (MP 2) - Dailies are a mixed bag for ranged rogues, with some general clear winners and few levels where there are multiple 'great' options. As a result the effectiveness of this feat is questionable at best. 

Martial Flexibility
 (MP 2)
 - For the same reason adaptation isnt higher, ranged rogue utilities are pretty rare. Our melee counterparts get plenty but ours are pretty lack luster. As a result this feat suffers. 

Martial Freedom (MP)
 - A nice perk against 2 status debuffs that generally should not hit most ranged rogues. Skirmishers might rate this higher. 

Martial Versatility
 (MP 2)
 - Not bad, however only triggering after an extended rest seems rather limiting. Makes you more versatile as it states but ranged rogues powers generally have a smaller pool to pick from, limiting this power. 

Reckless Scramble (MP) - A decent option for artful dodgers whom go the skirmisher route. 

Risky Shift (MP 2) - Since sniper rogues are less likely to need to shift, the cost of this feat is hard to justify. Giving CA is one of the few ways you can ensure you pop up on hostile radar with a juicy "Please hit me" sign. 

Slaying Action (MP) - Provides some nice nova damage by letting us apply SA again. 

Swift Footwork (MP 2) -  A decent power for skirmishers to consider. 

Trap Sense (MP) - Very focused power, although if your DM enjoys using lots of traps in combats, go ahead and rate this much higher. 

Two-Fisted Shooter (MP) - Allows for one of the highest DPR machines for sniper rogues (the MOST at epic). The power of this feat grows with tiers. Even better if you are a Drow. This only is advisable if you are going the hand crossbow route as it allows handcrossbow/handcrossbow. Daggermaster Throwers might also like this as it provides them a free ranged attack (two weapon opening specifies melee attack). 

Underhanded Tactics (DMA 2009) - A great ability to have when fighting an elite or solo. Giving up 4.5 damage to apply a -2 penalty could make your defender/leader very happy with you.


Paragon Tier:




Bleeding Backstab (MP)
 - A fantastic power when coupled with daily area attack spells. Applying ongoing 5 damage to multiple targets is great.

Deft Blade (MP 2) - Dagger Throwers, enjoy your new 'ranged' piercing strike! According to the compendium this applies to any 'basic attack'.

Evasive Footwork (MP) - Designed for melee rogue whom have many shifting powers, a sniper rogue can still make use of this with utilities and other powers. Handy in a pinch albeit limited. 

Expert Sneak (MP 2) - When it comes to maintaining CA independent of a party, sniper rogues are king. Its hard to justify a feat for more CA options when we can generate our own. 

Rogue Weapon Mastery (MP) - If it wasnt for the poor damage die of daggers, this might be more impressive. If you have some way of reliably increasing your dagger damage die, go ahead and rate this higher. 

Unerring Ambush (MP 2) - Not a bad feet for a ranged rogue since we have many options in front of us when combat starts. Combine with ranged burst and close blasts for maximum effect. 


Epic Tier:




Brutal Advantage (MP)
 -
Brutal Rogues, say hello. Since many of our powers hit a target multiple times or hit multiple targets, this will allow you to apply your strength modifier many more times per round. A great damage increaser!

Lasting Advantage (MP) -
Almost insulting for a sniper rogue, whom at this level will have a multitude of ways to generate CA from the class.

Martial Mastery
 (MP)
 -
Fantastic power! Use it to reclaim your area burst or blast attacks for fun times. 

Martial Resolve
 (MP)
 -
Despite my distaste for saving throw feats, this is a nice one. Getting saves at the beginning of your turn will give you a hint as to why Wardens are such happy fellows. 

One with Shadow (MP) -
As we generally stay far away from our foes, the benefits seem questionable.

Whirlwind Sneak Attack (MP) - T
he damage output of this feat tied to area burst and blasts is simply fantastic, especially when combined with martial mastery. 
 

General Feats


Heroic Tier:



Armor Proficiency (PHB) - STR based snipers can pick up hide armor, although as we arnt targets for many attacks this seems iffy. 

Deadly Draw (PHB 3) - Without a way to slide on command this isnt worth it. 

Distant Advantage (PHB 2) - The usefulness of this feat is based largely on your DM. My suggestion? By it by default at first. If you find you are getting plenty of cover in fights, then train it out. Skirmishers; this may be the only reliable way you gain combat advantage for a long while. 

Grounding Shot
 (PHB 3)
 - The usefulness of this feat is based on your DM and your party. If the DM's monsters drop prone a lot, this is a great counter. If your party knocks down foes a lot, then this can actually be a source of some mild damage boosting. 

Improved Initiative
 (PHB)
 - Helps you get another round of CA; not critical for a sniper rogue but not bad.

Nimble Blade (PHB) - Dagger Throwers, for you this is mandatory. Other rogues need not apply. 

Quick Draw
 (PHB)
 - Since we generally just use a single ranged weapon, theres generally no reason to pick this when improved initiative exists. 

Skill Power
 (PHB 3)
 - TBD

Speed Loader
 (PHB 2)
 - Eliminates a big pain in the butt for superior crossbow users. Then again, rogues dont use their minor actions for much, so this is not a critical priority until you start getting more and more abilities/items which require your minor. 

Spring Step
 (PHB 3)
 - Since we do not spend time on our backs, this really is hard to justify. 

Toughness (PHB) - More HP isnt shabby. Skirmishers should consider this. 

Weapon Expertise (PHB 2) - There is no reason not to take this feat. This is a priority. 5%/10%/15% better to hit means more hits! Your job is to HIT and deal damage. This outweighs any other damage modifier you have.  

Weapon Focus (PHB) - Static damage bonus which are delicious for sniper rogues whom function somewhat similarly to rangers in the 'many attack rolls' department. 

Weapon Master
 (D 382)
 - Great for dagger throwers whom later on will be using hand crossbows in their offhand. 

Weapon Proficiency
 (PHB)
 - The only rogues picking this up will be those using superior crossbows or greatbows, in which case this is almost mandatory (at level 1 a superior crossbow will give you more total damage than backstaber or weapon expertise on average. So its the gold amongst the golds). For dagger throwers or hand crossbow rogues however, this is ignorable. 

Wintertouched (PHB)
 - Used in the classic frost cheese combo. Useless until Paragon.

Paragon Tier:



Armor Specialization (PHB)
 - Generally only applicable to brutal rogues, and many wont make the con requirement. That being said if you can, this is something to look at. 

Danger Sense (PHB)
 - Two rolls at initiative outweighs the benefits of improved initiative (2 rolls effectively being +5). If you have improved initiative this might be something to consider a retrain. 

Fleet-Footed (PHB) - More speed is never bad?

Lasting Frost (PHB) - Dagger Throwers, this is almost mandatory for you since CA is a bit more difficult. Ranged rogues; using this and wintertouched effectively results in 5 extra damage (or 2.5 extra per feat). Not a bad investment. 

Light Blade Precision (PHB) - Another good pick for dagger throwers. Other rogues need not apply.

Paragon Defenses
 (PHB 2)
 - Math fix feat, and while i dislike defensive feats, its hard to pass this one up! +1 to all your NADS is pretty yummy. 

Point-Blank Shot (PHB)
 - A potential pick for dagger throwers, other snipers should almost never deal with this. 

Reserve Maneuver (PHB 2) - The power of this feat is somewhat based on what PP you choose. If it has a poor encounter power. This is a little limiting but allows many rogues to swap a poor PP encounter with something like snap shot. 

Steady Shooter (PHB) - +3 damage with crossbows! Fantastic for most sniper rogues. 

Unfailing Courage (D 377) - Spend an AP to heal? Not bad. 


Epic Tier:



Light Blade
 (PHB)
 - Most dagger throwers will be dagger masters, but if you are not, then seriously consider this. 

Bow Mastery
 (PHB 2)
 - Makes you even scarier. Also makes the hand crossbow/two fister shooter combination utterly scary. 

Blind-Fight (PHB)
 - Only helps us at melee;( 

Epic Fortitude/Epic Reflexes/Epic Will
 (PHB 2)
 - Lots of nice NAD bonuses. Consider swaping paragon defenses in for one of these, although I would suggest Robust Defenses more so. 

Epic Resurgence
 (PHB)
 - Since man of the sniper builds effectively 'crit fish' this comes up a lot. Yet a third way to pull off a close blast power and have your whirling sneak attack go off. 

Long Step
 (PHB 3)
 - A nifty feat for our melee counter parts. If you regularly have monsters in your grill, you might consider this; although you may have larger issues at that point. 

Robust Defenses
 (PHB 2)
 - +2 to all non AC defenses? Yes yes! Swap paragon defenses for this. 

Superior Initiative
 (PHB 3)
 - Remember Danger Sense? This is what you retrain it to. 

Triumphant Attack
 (PHB)
 - A debuff that lasts the entire encounter? Especially good since most sniper rogues are crit fishers by this level. 

Unfettered Stride
 (PHB)
 - This gives you a great bonus to mobility. Even if it is more useful for our melee counter parts its nothing to ignore; generally where there is difficult terrain, there is delicious cover and it makes it even LESS attractive for enemies to come after you. 
 

Racial Feats


Dragonborn

Heroic Feats

Avowed Dragonfoe (FRP) - A bit specific. Unless your campaign is a bit dragon focused, pass this. 

Brutal Teamwork (MP) - Your ranged, so being adjacent to an ally isnt really easy. 

Dragonborn Frenzy (PHB)
 - How often are you bloodied? Not often enough to warrant this. 

Hurl Breath (D 365) - Turns your racial into a ranged power, which nicely works for us. Also allows us to avoid hitting allies a bit easier. If you go Dragon Blooded, this is a nice pick up. 

Plagued Breath (D 385) - A decent way to buff your dragons breath if you went the spell-scared route. 

Epic Feats

Dragon Warrior (PHR: D) - A hard requirement to meet for most rogues (even melee) coupled with a trigger that isnt dependable for sniper rogues. Bad choice. 


Drow

Heroic Tier:


Clutch of Darkness (FRPG) - Since we stay in the back, extending the area is not a big deal. Skirmishers might rate this higher. 

Drow Fighting Style (D 367) - Useless for most rogues, however if you are playing a melee rogue with crossbow support this is great. Thats not really a sniper rogue though. 

Instinctive Darkness (D 367)
 - Situationally useful, but hard to really justify this. Can save you from taking lots of incoming damage, however in general this is resolved with positioning. 

Ruthless Hunter (FRPG)
 - Makes the drow one of the best snipers, especially in epic levels. Combined with two fisted shooter and a high crit range for a fantastic damage set up. That said this should not be considered until mid/late paragon; until then a superior crossbow will outperform the hand crossbow. 

Shadow Slip (D 367) - A free shift when you pop down your cloud of darkness? This is a free shift once an encounter (potentially twice at epic). That said, the usefulness of this is somewhat questionable. 

Paragon Tier:



Cloud of Poison (D 382) - We arnt close enough to take advantage of this. 

Darkjumper (MP) - Another mixed effect that we cant take advantage of. 

Eyedark Strike (D 373) - Blinding as a free action is nice to have when Cloud of Darkness or Darkfire would be hard/impossible to pull off.

Master of Fire and Darkness (FRPG) - An extra racial per encounter. One might argue how useful dark fire is, and much of this is based on your secondary stat. Brutal rogues might want to rate this black or purple. 

Merciless Killer (FRPG) - Effectively 2.5 extra damage her hit over the course of a fight, which is fantastic!

Epic Tier:



Darkfire Warrior (MP) - Again, rate this based on your taste, however if you have a good dark fire score you can time this while creatures are bloodied and maybe get a number of uses out of this. Potentially useful if your a skirmisher. 

Lolth Blessed (D 382) - Two clouds of darkness is great! Thats 4 rounds of assured CA if other methods fail. 


Half Orc

Heroic Tier:

Anger Unleashed (PHB 2)
 - A perk for being bloodied. Why are you bloodied? 

Menacing Thug (MP 2) - Not a bad power for your skirmishers; crossbow snipers might consider this if you have some difficulty getting cover. 

Savage Assault (PHB 2)
 - This will be somewhat based on your party and ability to team nova. If its high, rate this higher. 

Thirst for Battle (PHB 2)
 - Sniper rogues rarely use up our surges, so its hard to justify this over improved initiative. 


Paragon Tier:




Strength from Pain (PHB 2) - A damage perk from being bloodied? Since this is not a reliable trigger, its hard to justify. 

Epic Tier:




Ferocious Critical (PHB 2)
 - Incredible! Crits net us accuracy and damage bonuses. This makes a Half Orc Brutal Two Fisted Shooter somewhat competitive with Drow for top dog. A delicious feat especially as ranged rogues generally are crit fishers. 



 

Paragon Paths
I will not be including some heavily melee only PP's. If there is a PP you would like up here, please comment in the thread. 

Rogue PP's

Arcane Trickster (MP 2) - Until there is some way of mixing arcane better with a ranged rogue, this is an underwhelming option. 

Arena Champion (D 368) - Nothing here is bad or good. Decent attack powers. Semi Ok benefits. Nothing to write home about. 

Cloaked Sniper
 (MP) - For sniper rogues not looking to multi class, this is a solid choice. The class features more or less allow you to save on some feats, where the daily is arguably so so (decent hit + some riders) the encounter power allows for a fantastic nova. The utility power is very nice as well as it means less needing to hide. 

Daggermaster (PHB) - The top path for dagger throwers (even with so many new dagger throwing paths). Even with the encounter/daily powers being melee based, your normal skirmisher can forgo a round and run into combat to expend these powers before moving back to ranged and enjoying their enlarged crit range. 

Daring Slinger (MP 2) - Action Point power is nothing to write home about. However a flat +2/4 damage and ignoring long range penalties are a nice addition. An encounter power that strikes 3 targets is fantastic! The daily power has an amazing rider effect as well. Great PP if you plan to use slings. 

Flying-Blade Adept (MP) - Red might be harsh, but there is little to make a good case for this PP. The powers do little to improve what you do. The features are also sub standard. 

Guildmaster Thief (MP) - The big draw of this class only occurs if your flanking. Otherwise it has some ok powers.

Master Infiltrator (PHB) - If you are really pushing stealth, this might be a possibility, but most sniper rogues have enough options for this by Paragon. Unimpressive. 

Master of Poisons (MP 2) - Without some way to deal poison damage reliably from ranged, this falls down to mediocre. 

Master Spy (MP) - The daily is melee only. Beyond that, so so class features and so so powers. That kind of sums up the Master Spy; so so. 

Shadow Assassin (PHB) - A main feature of this class is reliant on being attacked. Removing that from our list of features, the class is ok, but nothing special. 

Verdant Stalker (MP 2) - If your doing the hand crossbow round, this is worth a look. Brutal 2 on your sneak attack means 5 more damage a round at Epic (which stacks up nicely vs some other PPs that result in an extra dice (4.5 on average). Ignoring difficult terrain opens up the battle field to you. The encounter power is weak but allows you to pop into stealth rather well. The utility is a bit limited. The daily is fantastic (hits hard, area burst 2, hits enemies only). The con to this path is the limited weapons that work with it (no superior crossbow/longbow) and 'so so' features. 


MC PP's

Ranger

Avalanche Hurler (MP) - Not shabby for a skirmisher. AP results in an extra free attack. Thrown weapons increase a die (your daggers are d6's now. Not bad). Ignoring range penalties saves you a feat. What makes this a win are the powers. An encounter power to hit two targets. Daily that lets you target 4 enemies. Not shabby. 

Dark Strider (MP2) - Currently one of the damage kings for snipers, and able to pull it off more reliably than a brutal rogue in later paragon. Dark Striders start and finish with their first feature which allows them to add 3+ wisdom modifier to weapon damage rolls if they are hidden (why hello Hide in Plain Sight!). Action Point power should see limited usefulness. Blindsense is another amazing class feature. Powers are weak but typically have nice riders. Requires dungeoneering.  

Sharp Shooter (MP) - Action points give us an extra action; check. Ignore some conditional penalties (cover/concealment); check. Amazing daily power; double check. The encounter power and limited use for the utility (for many rogues) reduce this from being sky blue. This can be a very good damage candidate in the right hands however. 





Multiclassing 


 

Reserved
I assume you are done reserving? I will be adding this to the Handbook reference list. Hope to see more content soon!
I glad to see you're doing this too.

Ranking Cha black is interesting. I really had a hard time deciding on my secondary stats for a CS Crossbow Rogue. I was actually expecting to see Str or Cha pumped and that a typical ranged rogue would pick up Brutal or AD class features at epic based on that.

I like a strong starting wis for the perception score but, what static bonus does wis generate for the crossbow rogue?

Darkstrider Paragon Path I suppose.
Adopt one today!
Yikes, someone responded. I was debating if I should continue this. There are other handbooks, they touch on ranged rogues, but i think they dont really focus on them, its more of an after thought. I will be updating this soon with more.



If this comes across somewhat negative, sorry for that.
I mostly avoid threads I disagree with (except some straight falsehoods like: Battleminds = unplayable ;)) and try not to threadcrap, but I think this deserves some honest (in either way) answer.



First I was turned off by some very strange ratings.
You simply don't have the control a melee Rogue has, and I doubt that due powers, NAD targetting, minors and many other things that you can keep up in either burst or sustained damage as well. And while you're accurate, I don't why you by all means compare yourself to a Bow Rogue of all (it's not even a standard option !) - the epitome of accuracy is the Dagger Rogue (which, btw, is melee and ranged) with Piercing Strike / Deft Blade or if you go beyond Rogues certain Avenger builds as well, and I doubt that you can compare to either.
The races are questionable as well. Halflings might have problems with big Xbows, but both Hand-Xbows, Daggers and Sling plus Two-Fisted Shooter work very well for them, and Halfling Defense aka not taking any hit means the rest of your group suffers. Half-Orcs still can keep up with Drows easily for sustained damage, and they simply blow them out of the water for novas. Eladrin with two matching stats and a teleport, Giths with according to you two matching stats and the ability to abuse Farbond Bastardswords and go melee if needed, etc etc. All those are really off or at least in severe need of explanation.
You also have to be really careful with gold ratings in general.

Then I also miss a clear reason to play a ranged Rogue beyond the fluff - it can't be pure surviveability. I know some really good specialised builds for those here on CharOp, but your handbook doesn't provide anything general.
You also want to at least discuss somewhere the perks of a versatile aka melee and ranged Rogue, but also mention any lackings.

And at last, don't be that extensive. Reuse and recycle to not write everything again. Instead focus on things that make this style special, but be more verbose and detailed about it.
I want you to continue this guide.  I don't think any striker can possibly match a ranged rogue for sheer cool, but I do have to admit every time I make one I look at the Ranger and think "why am I not just doing that again?"  CA is hard to get before paragon, damage is not as good as multi-attacks...best answer I can come up with is Cunning Sneak double-MC warlock/assassin for constant hiding from level 4, 2 if human.  So everything you and the rest of the board can say about ranged rogues, I want to hear.

Where's your picture from?  I love it.  Finally found a replacement for the lolcat kitten with sniper rifle I was using on my ranged rogue.


but be more verbose and detailed about it.



Detailed without verbose, please.  This board has enough disgustingly verbose writing on it.
I recently made a not too optimized (on purpose) human rogue / daring slinger. And it is still a strong player on the field.

One thing to note re: races; while the extra at-will is a bit of a waste, you can use the human bonus feat (well, your 2nd level feat) to get 'Skill Swap' which lets you trade that bonus at will for any skill utility power you qualify for. It is really quite handy!

With regards to ability scores, the cunning sneak relies on Int as a secondary, and it can be pretty handy to get those extra squares of shifts and whatnot. Without the use of an Xbow, Con and Wis are really unnecessary.

Oh, and SuperKlaus; CA is very easy to get as a cunning sneak rogue. Even at 1st level...
Yikes, someone responded. I was debating if I should continue this. There are other handbooks, they touch on ranged rogues, but i think they dont really focus on them, its more of an after thought. I will be updating this soon with more.



If this comes across somewhat negative, sorry for that.
I mostly avoid threads I disagree with (except some straight falsehoods like: Battleminds = unplayable ;)) and try not to threadcrap, but I think this deserves some honest (in either way) answer.



First I was turned off by some very strange ratings.
You simply don't have the control a melee Rogue has, and I doubt that due powers, NAD targetting, minors and many other things that you can keep up in either burst or sustained damage as well. And while you're accurate, I don't why you by all means compare yourself to a Bow Rogue of all (it's not even a standard option !) - the epitome of accuracy is the Dagger Rogue (which, btw, is melee and ranged) with Piercing Strike / Deft Blade or if you go beyond Rogues certain Avenger builds as well, and I doubt that you can compare to either.
The races are questionable as well. Halflings might have problems with big Xbows, but both Hand-Xbows, Daggers and Sling plus Two-Fisted Shooter work very well for them, and Halfling Defense aka not taking any hit means the rest of your group suffers. Half-Orcs still can keep up with Drows easily for sustained damage, and they simply blow them out of the water for novas. Eladrin with two matching stats and a teleport, Giths with according to you two matching stats and the ability to abuse Farbond Bastardswords and go melee if needed, etc etc. All those are really off or at least in severe need of explanation.
You also have to be really careful with gold ratings in general.

Then I also miss a clear reason to play a ranged Rogue beyond the fluff - it can't be pure surviveability. I know some really good specialised builds for those here on CharOp, but your handbook doesn't provide anything general.
You also want to at least discuss somewhere the perks of a versatile aka melee and ranged Rogue, but also mention any lackings.

And at last, don't be that extensive. Reuse and recycle to not write everything again. Instead focus on things that make this style special, but be more verbose and detailed about it.




Maybe as i flesh this guide out more you will see the reason. The fact is, there are very few 'gold' powers in a rogue arsenal that are melee only. As far as keeping up, I've played directly against a melee rogue in dnd and did much more DPR than him fight to fight. The reasons to play a ranged rogue are pretty easy actually;

Ability to strike anything on the board with ca without a setup(or much of a setup); this means the board does not dictate your target selection, you do. You can plow into a pesky ranged leader or enemy controller early, rather than waste rounds dealing with soldiers and skirmishers because you need the flank CA from your team mates. This makes you more useful as a party member.

Your damage is great. If you do not know that, you have to remember that most Sniper Rogues are A) Elves or Drow and B) use superior crossbows (d10 damage). Some of the most damaging attacks at any level work with ranged weapons and will deal out more damage with our superior xbow than any dagger. Ranged rogues have access to minor attack actions as well (to be honest, there are not THAT many for melee either. You have low slash and a higher level acrobatic strike (forget the exact name on that one). Raged rogues get snap shot and some access via PP's. Cloaked Sniper gets sudden bolt, yadda yadda). Of course the most important aspect of a ranged rogue is stacking modifiers. A dark striker rogue is adding a secondary 3+stat to EVERY hit (vs a brutal rogue that adds strength once a round). Steady Shooter is better than any melee counter part because it doesnt apply only when a target is bloodied and our friendly rogue is generally not moving much on the board (esp once he hits 16, before that though it can be common depending on the board). 

You control the board in a similar method as a melee rogue if you want, dolling out status effects and damage. You do loose access to some of the tastier ones, you however gain a great number of area attacks which will push your damage very high and give you a secondary aoe-controller aspect.

I hope as i flesh this guide out more (after having seen this interests, its back on my plate) i hope it will help you guys out more. The role of this guide was to take a peak at all sorts of ranged rogues, such a slingers and dagger throwers, however to be frank, both of those are simply inferior options. Dagger rogues range are limited, even with far throw, they really cannot take advantage of a sniper life style. They compliment melee rogues (as you noted) but you cannot effectively throw a dagger as a melee rogue and have combat advantage.

Slingers are interesting, and if you go that route they get access to some nice powers, but sling only powers are too few and far between. That being said if you really want to play a slinger, its viable but it would black in my book.

As far as your comments on races, your looking at things as a melee rogue and not at all understanding how a sniper rogue lives. The halflings racial power should rarely come up. Strength is only useful as a ranged brutal rogue, and most of the half orcs racials fall behind severly, lack of real good feat support for ranged, etc. These are melee rogue classes, plain and simple.

If you want a two handed crossbow user as a halfling, you will be working an uphill battle vs a drow, whom has the feat support for it, and plenty of other things to make them WORK from ranged. This might ruffle your feathers but this guide focuses on a different play style, so common conceptions are not going to be maintained.  
FYI Weapons updated. I'll expand on some of the weirder choices later. Notibly shuriken are not even listed. I need to sit down and figure out if there is any solidly redeeming feature to shuriken for a sniper rogue before given them what seems like an inevitable red rating (sorry but I cant see why you wouldnt just throw a dagger instead if your limited yourself to thrown ranges). 
Encounter 1/Daily 1/ Utility 2 done. 
...Actually, with Distant Advantage and Frostcheese later on, there's no real reason why a Dagger can't compete with a Superior Crossbow in terms of getting CA. Toss Nimble Blade and Deft Blade onto that, and not only are you attacking with a higher +to hit, you're hitting Reflex, AND you can do Melee, which by and large has better powers IMHO.

Don't underestimate the Dagger Rogue, Faytte. Their feat support (being a Light Blade) is significantly ahead of the other weapon types, so the only real drawback is range.
Yes, you should continue this. I started to make one similar a few days ago, which actually used the same picture, but apparently being a lurker and not having a high post count (as well as accidentally necro-ing a handbook about sniper rogues because you want to know about them and no other handbook for them exists and you forget to look at the last post date) means you aren't worthy of making handbooks.
Righto, alot can be done with frost cheese to be honest. I did rate the power blue and note that it can come into its own later. The fact is for the majority of your 1 through 30 career, its a bad choice. When you hit paragon and can make frost cheese work, and you are ok that changing targets will lead you to a turn without CA, then a brutal scoundrel dagger master with two fisted shooter (hand crossbow offhand) becomes a decent build (in fact, we have the math for that build in an older thread if you want to pull it back up). The benefits tapper a bit in epic (a hand/hand build with d8's catches up with a 19-20 crit range) and a pure sniper rogue not relying on frost cheese wont have to wait a round to gain the ca benefits that a frost cheeser would have to (this means your standard cheese rogue will need to move into melee for those rounds to gain flanking, hit the target, and start his cheese combo). 

The main items holding the dagger back are the lack of stacking damage types. Most of them apply to MELEE damage rolls. The loss of bracers of archery is a 6 damage in epic, and 2.5 vs 5.5 means 3 damage per damage dice. There is the loss of steady shot (another 3), and a dagger rogue will simply not be able to stay hidden meaning no dark strider pp (3+stat damage on every attack). Dagger rogues make fine melee rogues with ranged capabilities, they however are not the top dog as a purely ranged rogue.

As far as melee attacks  being by and large better, I would debate that. At pretty much every level with few exception, there are delicious ranged powers for the rogue.  Heres just a quick thrown together example:


1. Kings Castle   (2W targets Ref)
3. Fleeting Spirit Strike (Does not compare to Low Slash)
7: Cloud of Steel (Close blast 5? Party Friendly? Amazing)
11:  PP Power Here 
13: Tornado Strike (replaces Kings Castle) (two attacks. Not the best)
17: Unerring Shot (replaces Fleeting Spirit Strike) (I think the Dirty Deeds guide misread this power. You dont loose this power PERIOD if you shot from hidding. Effectily you now have a 3W at will when normal at wills are 1W at this level. With d10 weapons, thats not bad. Retrain it at epic for something else if you want)
23: Steel Entrapment (Replaces Cloud of Steel) (Close burst 5 + immobilioze!)
27: Crack Shot (Replaces Unerring Shot (yes we pick a 2nd level 23 power. 3W burst 1 > 6W single target). Area burst one and knock down in range. 


Daily:
3: Blinding Barrage (win)
5: Bloodbath  (win, even for melee rogues. Hit and Effect damage?)
9: Burst Fire (An early area effect, hit tons of monsters for decent damage. No side effect but this is for splash damage)     
15: Courage Breaker (admtedly, there are very few level 15 powers that are good. Only thing melee has over courage breaker is really Bloody path). 
19: Marked Beating (Replaces Blood Bath) (good even by melee standards)
20: PP Daily
25: Ricocheting Strike (Replaces Burst Fire) (Magnetic Shot is a close contender) (5W + Dex + Sneak Attack on the primary target and dex+sneak on the secondary? Not ground breaking. If you prefer get rogues ressurgance) 
29: Killing Storm (Replaced Courage Breaker). I cant even begin on this one. Minus the broken Kiss of Death, this is the best 29th daily we have. Area burst "2". Party friendly. Hits hard, half damage on miss, and the rider effect causes mass chaos in enemy ranks and results in countless attacks of oppurtunity for your party when set up proper? Mind you, this cant be done with a dagger; sling and xbow only. 


There are a few levels that you have some sub standard choices, but those are easy enough to cover up with multi classing. 

As far as feat support, light blade does have more feats, and I'm not saying they arnt good, but not many are applicable for a ranged rogue other than nimble blade.

Let me reitterate something; this is not the xbows are the best handbook, its a guide to all ranged rogues. I plan to cover all of them, including crit dagger masters. But when comparing weapon to weapon raw, a superior xbow is better than the other options throughout a rogues career, although others might catch up even surpass it later in the career.  
Yes, you should continue this. I started to make one similar a few days ago, which actually used the same picture, but apparently being a lurker and not having a high post count (as well as accidentally necro-ing a handbook about sniper rogues because you want to know about them and no other handbook for them exists and you forget to look at the last post date) means you aren't worthy of making handbooks.



Didnt notice your thread Sorry if we used the same picture. Not many results on google for anime crossbow characters. Most are really really bad art 
If I recall correctly (I'm at work right now um... working), longbows are +2/d10 not +2/d8.

As an elf rogue contemplating Treetop Sniper, I'm hoping that WOTC eventually allows the Sharpshooter ability to apply to bows for elves.
You are correct. I'll update it. In fact if elven bow rogues become a more viable option it will be nice. The verdant stalker pp, while not 'optimized' by any means is fairly nifty (unfortunately there amazing daily cant make up for the lack of damage through out). 


Still remains meh. For mandatory feat tax do you take +2/d10 or +3/d10 (reload minor, which as a rogue...is fairly minimal in terms of impact).

 
Very true about the "meh" factor.

I'm big on flavor as long as it doesn't totally gimp my character though.

What I'd like to do is go elf rogue|ranger with cunning sneak as the hybrid talent and Darkstrider PP.  That way I could put those minor actions to use.
Hey Faytte, I am very happy that someone is making a sniper rogue handbook !  I myself have been tinkering with that kind of rogue for some time now, making sling / crossbow oriented rogues.  Hand crossbow's as well.  I would like to say though that I do hope that not all builds will use frost cheese.  I am very tired to see so many builds use that feat combo, it should seriously be removed or class restricted.  /sigh

Being myself very interested in the ranged rogue options, sniper style rogues in particular, i would say that melee rogues are in no means completely ahead of their ranged cousins.  Using a light blade might give you more feat support, but the core differences more than make up for it.

I hope to see much more from you Faytte!  
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Hey Faytte, I am very happy that someone is making a sniper rogue handbook !  I myself have been tinkering with that kind of rogue for some time now, making sling / crossbow oriented rogues.  Hand crossbow's as well.  I would like to say though that I do hope that not all builds will use frost cheese.  I am very tired to see so many builds use that feat combo, it should seriously be removed or class restricted.  /sigh

Being myself very interested in the ranged rogue options, sniper style rogues in particular, i would say that melee rogues are in no means completely ahead of their ranged cousins.  Using a light blade might give you more feat support, but the core differences more than make up for it.

I hope to see much more from you Faytte!  




Thank you! I will be posting a variety of builds here soon, including dagger, hand cross, bow , sling, and superior. Frost Cheese is one of those things that most dm's seem to allow once. At least amongst DM's i know of, they do not seem happy with the combo. I'm actually expecting with how much you see 'frost cheese' on these forums that long terms it might get the nerf bat. 
I disagree with your interpretation of Unerring Shot. Here's the text, straight from the Compendium:

Unerring Shot


From your hiding place, you deliver an attack. If you miss, you feel assured you’ ll strike your target next time.
Encounter; Martial, Weapon
Standard Action; Ranged weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.
Miss: You do not expend this power if you were hidden from the target when you made the attack.

See, if it were an Effect line, I would agree with you. As it is, this is a horribly sub-optimal power, to be honest. I also find it amusing that people refer to Frostcheese as the devil, when its flaws are very well documented (only shows up in Paragon Tier and above, it's weak to energy-resistant enemies, requires significant item/feat investment). To be honest with you, I consider complaints about Frostcheese to be ignorant: Radiant synergies are better for most characters, and no one complains about them. The reason it's so valuable for a Rogue is because of the combat advantage, and even then it has competition (Mark of Storm + Deadly Draw gets it done in Heroic for a Melee Rogue).

You got me on unerring, i misread the power entirely. It is trashy as an encounter.

As per frost cheese, from a rogues point of view its cheesy since ca for us generally means more. And I did not say it was the most abused combo in the game or the most exploitable mechanic in the game. That said I suspect long term it might get a nerf, if not, o well? It is sub optimal for a sniper however; we maintain ca just fine. If you want to run a dagger throwing skirmisher, you will need a method to retain ca on rounds you switch targets or miss (however rare that last part might occur). That will generally involve rushing in, at which point that is a fine build and one I'll stat out (although I believe its been done before). In general though I think the lack of good static damage modifiers on your main attack and the lack of feat synergy of a dagger/hand crossbower make it less attractive than a handcrossbow/handcrossbow in the long term. Still a good build, and a 10% additional chance per roll to trigger a free offhand attack vs a standard hand/hand build at level 11 cant be underestimated;)

Let me get through all of the powers and feats and we will get to builds?

Level 3 encounter/5 dailies are up.  

As the most common multi class path, i included certain ranger powers in the 1-5 bracket. Other 'very nice' powers will be noted along the way from other mc's. Thats not to say every level will include MC powers, only ones that could be of use. 

Heroic powers fleshed out. I should get through most of paragon tonight. 

i've been trying to build a superior xbow cunning sneak rogue, and i'm now at the paragon path selection, I can't find the Dark Strider PP that you mentioned.  I took dungeoneering as you stated it was a requirement.  No go.  The only PP in the list that requires dungeoneering is Drow Wanderer, but it also requires you to be a drow.  So I am at a loss, i've also tried to look up Dark strider PP on google and came up empty ?

I did find the PP Cloaked Sniper which requires to be trained in stealth.  It even favors the crossbow using rogue, i will guess that this is the PP you recommend ?  It unfortunately does favor the hand crossbow however, so superior crossbow rogues won't get as much out of this PP.

I also haven't found steady shooter which you describe with Con.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Great guide so far.  Ranged Rogues are sorely underestimated, and no one really talks about them much, making it hard to find good sources of info on them. 
Darkstrider is a ranger paragon path.  To get to it, you have to either MC or hybrid with ranger.

i've been trying to build a superior xbow cunning sneak rogue, and i'm now at the paragon path selection, I can't find the Dark Strider PP that you mentioned.  I took dungeoneering as you stated it was a requirement.  No go.  The only PP in the list that requires dungeoneering is Drow Wanderer, but it also requires you to be a drow.  So I am at a loss, i've also tried to look up Dark strider PP on google and came up empty ?

I did find the PP Cloaked Sniper which requires to be trained in stealth.  It even favors the crossbow using rogue, i will guess that this is the PP you recommend ?  It unfortunately does favor the hand crossbow however, so superior crossbow rogues won't get as much out of this PP.

I also haven't found steady shooter which you describe with Con.



I like how you're adding good ranger powers here as well.  Saves me from having to reference more than one handbook at a time.
Theres no mention that you need to MC to ranger in order to take the Dark Strider PP haha, it also only says that its one of the best ranged rogue PP's which is what led to the confusion.  And yes the addition of the ranger powers are a nice addition :D!
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Maybe as i flesh this guide out more you will see the reason. The fact is, there are very few 'gold' powers in a rogue arsenal that are melee only. As far as keeping up, I've played directly against a melee rogue in dnd and did much more DPR than him fight to fight. The reasons to play a ranged rogue are pretty easy actually;



No, I really don't see anything there in any of your additions so far.
And pardon me, but if you significantly out damage a Melee Rogue, that Melee Rogue simply doesn't know how to play or put all of his feats into Skill Specialisiation or the like.

Ability to strike anything on the board with ca without a setup(or much of a setup); this means the board does not dictate your target selection, you do. You can plow into a pesky ranged leader or enemy controller early, rather than waste rounds dealing with soldiers and skirmishers because you need the flank CA from your team mates. This makes you more useful as a party member.



Disagreed.
I'm a useful party member if I a) kill things dead b) stop things from causing trouble (Daze, Blind, Stun, ...) while I kill things dead. I yet have to see proof that Ranged Rogues are better at that.
And while CA is somewhat easier for RR if they go CS (which means significant losses at other places and is open for MR as well), ADs find it trivial to get CA and BS still have enough means if they care (eg cause they have a ranged only party). And between First Strike, Distant Advantage / Frost Cheese / ... and many many powers no Rogue is really hurt for CA.

Your damage is great. If you do not know that, you have to remember that most Sniper Rogues are A) Elves or Drow and B) use superior crossbows (d10 damage). Some of the most damaging attacks at any level work with ranged weapons and will deal out more damage with our superior xbow than any dagger. Ranged rogues have access to minor attack actions as well (to be honest, there are not THAT many for melee either. You have low slash and a higher level acrobatic strike (forget the exact name on that one). Raged rogues get snap shot and some access via PP's. Cloaked Sniper gets sudden bolt, yadda yadda). Of course the most important aspect of a ranged rogue is stacking modifiers. A dark striker rogue is adding a secondary 3+stat to EVERY hit (vs a brutal rogue that adds strength once a round). Steady Shooter is better than any melee counter part because it doesnt apply only when a target is bloodied and our friendly rogue is generally not moving much on the board (esp once he hits 16, before that though it can be common depending on the board).



The d10 is only a minor factor, particularly because it also blocks your off hand (no TWO / TFS, among other things). Rogues have lower Ws and rely more on static damage, accuracy and SA.
Darkstrider is sure good, but so is Daggermaster, Kensai, Shocktrooper, etc.
And Snap Shot is one weak minor, that I can even take as Dagger Rogue if I want. Show me your Low Slashes, Tumbling Strikes, Critical Opportunities, Shocking Twisters etc.
Or just show me numbers - daily nova, encounter nova, at-will damage. You can find something moderately optimised in my sig that you should easily beat if RR are that surperior, considering that I didn't take any races, MC, etc in account, which easily kicks my DPR up by 50%. Show me how you beat dedicated Dagger Rogues, Rapier Chargers, etc.

You control the board in a similar method as a melee rogue if you want, dolling out status effects and damage. You do loose access to some of the tastier ones, you however gain a great number of area attacks which will push your damage very high and give you a secondary aoe-controller aspect.



Again - examples besides Positioning Strike / Tornado Strike.
Anything else is either very high level or Close Burst, which is not Ranged.

Slingers are interesting, and if you go that route they get access to some nice powers, but sling only powers are too few and far between. That being said if you really want to play a slinger, its viable but it would black in my book.



The key about Sling (and why is actually very viable) is that is the sole ranged weapon that carries good control (see the point about the low significance of your damage die above). It also has a solid in class PP and you still can keep your off-hand for many useful things. If nothing else do the math what a simple Vengeful Weapon +1 in your off-hand can do to mobs.

As far as your comments on races, your looking at things as a melee rogue and not at all understanding how a sniper rogue lives. The halflings racial power should rarely come up. Strength is only useful as a ranged brutal rogue, and most of the half orcs racials fall behind severly, lack of real good feat support for ranged, etc. These are melee rogue classes, plain and simple.

If you want a two handed crossbow user as a halfling, you will be working an uphill battle vs a drow, whom has the feat support for it, and plenty of other things to make them WORK from ranged. This might ruffle your feathers but this guide focuses on a different play style, so common conceptions are not going to be maintained.  



I'm not. I'm just saying the RR are more than Drow/Elf Darkstriders. I'm also saying that you should be upfront about the advantages and disadvantages of a RR - they're a viable choice for style, but a handbook must be upfront about pros and cons. It's not my playstyle, it's you proposing your One True Way of playing a RR !
That's not a handbook, that's a specific build bloated to 10 post length.
i've been trying to build a superior xbow cunning sneak rogue, and i'm now at the paragon path selection, I can't find the Dark Strider PP that you mentioned.  I took dungeoneering as you stated it was a requirement.  No go.  The only PP in the list that requires dungeoneering is Drow Wanderer, but it also requires you to be a drow.  So I am at a loss, i've also tried to look up Dark strider PP on google and came up empty ?

I did find the PP Cloaked Sniper which requires to be trained in stealth.  It even favors the crossbow using rogue, i will guess that this is the PP you recommend ?  It unfortunately does favor the hand crossbow however, so superior crossbow rogues won't get as much out of this PP.

I also haven't found steady shooter which you describe with Con.




As the individual below me noted, Darkstrider is a ranger PP in MP2. To give you the short skinny on it, Darkstriders have a feature where any weapon damage hit on an enemy while they are hiding adds in 3+ wisdom modifier damage. There is no cap per round. It also nets you blind sight (range = to your wisdom modifier) permanently. Beyond that it has a meh encounter and daily attack powers (id rate them as black prematurely) but the ability to add 3+wisdom on EVERY attack is of course amazing ^_^ Makes the Pit Fighter look weak which is a lot to say in the min maxing community.

Cloaked Snipers are an ok PP, but hardly optimized, that being said they arnt bad. They free up 2 feats (rapid reload, slaying action) for you and their encounters are one of the better encounter powers a PP can have (hard hitting MINOR ACTION attack that dazes? Wow).

Steady Shooter is in the PHB. 15 Con. If you attack and you havnt moved since the end of your last turn, you gain +3 damage with crossbows.  

No, I really don't see anything there in any of your additions so far.
And pardon me, but if you significantly out damage a Melee Rogue, that Melee Rogue simply doesn't know how to play or put all of his feats into Skill Specialisiation or the like.



Having played rogues since 4th was released, I fail to understand where you are drawing your conclusions from. The ranged rogue looses attacks of oppurtunity, the knock out blow combo, sneak in attack. Ranged user are capable of effectivly stacking many static modifiers in damage, comparable to melee, the advantage of dagger master is somewhat nullified in the epic tier, and the effects of a handcrossbow/handcrossbow darkseeker is fantastic. I'm not saying ALL ranged rogues will exceed ALL melee rogues; that is silly, but ranged rogues can put a melee rogue on his heels and keep up, potentially surpass. If it helps, DPR rangers exceed rogues because of what...multi striking (we best know this from their at will, but realistically many of their encounter powers result in multi strikes). A ranged rogue really plays like a hybrid between a ranger and a rogue, effectively getting access to more multi striking and bigger damage dice WHILE still retaining the rogues advantages of great accuracy and a better striking mechanic. 

Disagreed.
I'm a useful party member if I a) kill things dead b) stop things from causing trouble (Daze, Blind, Stun, ...) while I kill things dead. I yet have to see proof that Ranged Rogues are better at that.
And while CA is somewhat easier for RR if they go CS (which means significant losses at other places and is open for MR as well), ADs find it trivial to get CA and BS still have enough means if they care (eg cause they have a ranged only party). And between First Strike, Distant Advantage / Frost Cheese / ... and many many powers no Rogue is really hurt for CA..



A ranged rogue is going to be killing things dead just like you, and they can pick the target WAY in the back that a melee rogue cannot safely go attack without getting their **** handed to them. The issue is that your CA is reliant on A) your utility powers B) other players. If they are not attacking a particular enemy, you are down to A or frost cheese (which requires you waste a round with no CA to begin the cycle) if you want to go attack the enemy leader/controller that is messing up your party. As far as no need for CS, maybe you have not seen my other 3 threads on ranged rogues from before MP2 which were brutal rogues. I never said you have to be CS, infact I know you do not HAVE to be CS; deft strike and distant advantage in a smart party is all you need. That being said, CS works very well and allows YOU to pick your targets instead of the battle field and party placement. Secondly, the use of dark strider effectivly replicates the primary TACTIC (i.e not feat, or power) benefit of Brutal Rogues. I get to add 3 + Wisdom modifier to every attack from stealth, no need for the epic feat brutal advantage to. This becomes increasingly more important when a ranged rogues bursts are hitting many enemies.


The d10 is only a minor factor, particularly because it also blocks your off hand (no TWO / TFS, among other things). Rogues have lower Ws and rely more on static damage, accuracy and SA.
Darkstrider is sure good, but so is Daggermaster, Kensai, Shocktrooper, etc.
And Snap Shot is one weak minor, that I can even take as Dagger Rogue if I want. Show me your Low Slashes, Tumbling Strikes, Critical Opportunities, Shocking Twisters etc.
Or just show me numbers - daily nova, encounter nova, at-will damage. You can find something moderately optimised in my sig that you should easily beat if RR are that surperior, considering that I didn't take any races, MC, etc in account, which easily kicks my DPR up by 50%. Show me how you beat dedicated Dagger Rogues, Rapier Chargers, etc.



To pick this apart. Superior Crossbows are one route, in epic your hand crossbow user is going to take off, in which case their mechanic even with a 19-20 crit range actually stacks up incredibly favorably to a shocktrooper with a d8 kukri and two weapon opening. Secondly, I'm still writting the bloody hand book; its not done yet. If you want proof, you can actually search the forums for some of the darkstrider builds. I'll post something up for you in a tinge as you seem the impatient sort. 

 
Again - examples besides Positioning Strike / Tornado Strike.
Anything else is either very high level or Close Burst, which is not Ranged.



Controlling was a poor term to use. Your battle field general ship is as good as melee rogues, and you have similar access to dazes, slows, knock downs, etc, but slides and the such no. 


The key about Sling (and why is actually very viable) is that is the sole ranged weapon that carries good control (see the point about the low significance of your damage die above). It also has a solid in class PP and you still can keep your off-hand for many useful things. If nothing else do the math what a simple Vengeful Weapon +1 in your off-hand can do to mobs.



It has a decent in class PP, not sure if I would go far as to call it solid on the optimization level. There is nothing terribly amazing about the sling, nothing horrible about it. It got the black label as i think is appropriate. Given more feat support for slings, maybe that will change. Bracers of archery do not work with them. Between just that and steady shooter your looking at a loss of 9 damage a shot in epic, and a hand crossbow keeps your other hand free as well. Also I'm not sure if you keep up on errata but vengeful weapon bonus now only applies to the vengeful weapon. Check the compendium. 

I'm not. I'm just saying the RR are more than Drow/Elf Darkstriders. I'm also saying that you should be upfront about the advantages and disadvantages of a RR - they're a viable choice for style, but a handbook must be upfront about pros and cons. It's not my playstyle, it's you proposing your One True Way of playing a RR !
That's not a handbook, that's a specific build bloated to 10 post length  



Ok, your making two arguments. 

A) I'm presenting as many options as I can and indicating which are the best on an optimization level, no different from many other handbooks. The difference is that at this time there are NOT that many races good for the RR, its not my personal opinion on trying to push one thing over another, its simply the fact some races have the feat support and racial powers, and others do not.

B) If you are trying to debate me on an optimization level, then yes i bring up our drow/dark strider because at the moment that is the most heavily damaging build there is. In time, it might be something else. Elves would be a close second but frankly the lack of merciless killer, ruthless hunter, and ability to gain CA anywhere on the board for 2 rounds (imparative for our close bursts, since we will likely apply whirl wind sneak attack to it) squeeks the drow above the +2 wisdom and reroll. 



I have to back up the OP here, 

@ IanGeweile

Why are you attacking this thread / OP ?  You seem amazingly angry for very little reason, and as the OP has defended quite well, most of your points seem to be more about your personal position.  I don't understand why you are as angry as you appear to be, but please, back up and let the OP at least half finish the handbook.  You're attacking something that barely just started.  How about you relax a bit, and come back in a few days to see what the OP will have added, and then make CONCRETE observations that don't seem like attacks towards the OP / Thread.

Please and ty.
 
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

A note on Intimidate -- this skill is a prerequisite for capitalizing on rattling powers.  Whether that changes you rating is another matter, but it's worth adding to the skill's description.
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