![[Audio] Thwarting Skill Pigpiling](/at-will/assets/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/bizcard_back.tt_630x250_zc1.png "[Audio] Thwarting Skill Pigpiling")
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The SkillCast
The SkillCast
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So I’ve been back on audio hijinks again. This time I am building a series of shorts ( 5 minutes or less) with different tips ands tricks. Right now there are no separate feed for the audio. I’m testing out the format here on the site first on Tuesdays and Thursday. I’d like your feedback. Like what you’re hearing? Wanna hear about topic X, Y, or Z? Think I have a voice made for outer space (where no one can hear me scream)? Let me know. If I get feedback it will let me know where to go, so please take a second to share your thoughts!
Anyway, this first clip is me talking about ways to deal with people “pigpiling” on skill checks. What do you do when everyone is trying to roll History at the same time just because one person started to? The following provides some answers for you.
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A Jack of All Trades ,or if you prefer, an extreme example of multi-classing, Gamefiend, a.k.a Quinn Murphy has been discussing, playing and designing games straight out of the womb. He is the owner and Editor-in-Chief of this site in addition to being an aspiring game designer. As you would assume, he is a huge fan of 4e.
By day he is a technologist.
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A couple of things:
1) Sounds like a better microphone is in order. A couple of words got lost, especially at the end of a sentence.
2) I found myself wanting a quick, bullet-point summary at the end. I was thinking something short like, “So if people start pigpiling, have them figure out ways to help the initiator by modifying the outcome with a different skill roll, then finish up with the initiator for the big roll to determine success or failure.”
On the audio:
– Agreed on the setup… there’s some clipping and noise on your voice that’s a bit grating.
– Your segment ended abruptly, give us a 2-sentence summary and a “thanks and good night”.
Content-wise it’s good stuff though!
– I tend to let the situation dicate… pig-piling only really makes physical sense in some situations
– I generally only let the person with the highest trained skill make party checks (like History or Perception), otherwise the “roll enough dice and you’ll get a success” problem comes into play. If the wizard has a +15 in Arcana and he can’t figure it out, the character with a +6 sure as heck won’t either, but if the player’s can describe for me how the +6 is actually helping the +15, I’ll allow a pig-pile to reward the RP.
– Things like party stealth are either assists as you’ve described or the opposite – “everybody has to make a stealth check if you’re going to stay together” otherwise the monster hears/sees you.
Actually, it sounds kinda like an improvised skill challenge, though with a success condition dependent on the on the outcome of the main roll rather than the total number o
I think an additional way to heighten the drama is to introduce stakes. Sorta like how the current aid another rolls provide for a -1 penalty to the check if you fail your aid another check. In this case, though, I think you’ve set the stage for more narrative complications: the guard realizes they’re being distracted by the PC using Bluff; the guy using Streetwise gets a bad tip, and the Stealthy PC gets directed to the wrong loot. Of course, the fourth and fifth PCs might be sneaking in also, to cut down the time it takes to find the best thing.
In any event, very interesting thoughts – thanks for shooting them out into the interwebs. I agree that a bullet point summary at the end would be helpful.
Thanks!
+1 from me for a better mic. Like yellow text on a white background, you can make it out, but a little clarity is much appreciated. That said, especially for these short clips, the audio quality is Good Enough®.
There is a weekly pick-up game at my FLGS and it used to have a problem with skill pigpiling. Everyone at the table would pipe up with only “I roll to aid.” We eventually ruled that you have to fully describe how you’re helping just like you have to fully describe what you want to do when you roll a skill check. I like the idea of encouraging other skill uses to help instead of endless aid another rolls because it feels less like a slap on the wrist for “bad roleplaying” and more like channeling the energy into something that will be even more fun for the whole table.
Like Oswallt, I require actual descriptions of actions – no disassociated bonuses out of the ether.
4E differentiates passive and active skill checks. I apply this to EVERY skill check. Even things like history or perception. You have to be doing something -active- to get the active bonus. If you are just glancing at a thing then you get the passive result.
An active perception check would either mean quite some time spent in concentrated observation, or actually handling the thing/searching the area/moving to high ground etc. The exact time needed might depend on the result of the roll.
Quinn, I dig this! You should definitely do more of these.
The audio quality sounded fine, to me. Did I download a revised version?
If you’re looking for new topics, I’d love to hear advice on prepping short, single-session adventures. I’m doing that kind of thing for my Gamma World game, and I’m worried I’m going to fall into a “some investigation, and then a fight” rut.
I would have preferred this in text, really. It was a fascinating little audio file, but I’m bandwidth limited and it’s a lot easier for me to read text.
What *would* have been cooler for me would be to have the audio file have been text, then a recorded *example* of a group of people performing the technique in good and bad instances, something that is hard to render in text.
OTOH, I live in Oz where bandwidth is scarce, so certainly don’t consider me a useful point in your demographic sampling.
I’d prefer text, too, but it’s not my blog. =)
I noticed, though, that you switched from a Perception example to a Stealth example half-way through. I’m not sure how this would play out in your original Perception example. “I’m looking for traps,” says Player 1. Players 2-6 also want to look for traps. How do you resolve that without having everyone roll Perception?